Now that April Fool's is completely out the way, we can start taking the stories we see pop up today seriously. Well, you know, within reason. Here's what's been catching our attention:
- Clearly, the number one topic is the Malaysian stewards picking up where the Australian guys left off. Moments after Toyota announced they were giving up their appeal on Trulli's penalty, the stewards decided that Hamilton's version of the truth might not be entirely accurate. Apparently he'll face questioning ahead of this weekend's race. When will the FIA realise that if there must be politics, then what we really need is for it not to drag on forever?
- I'm slightly surprised by Williams' reluctance to bring KERS in, or even name a date when they can do so. I always thought they were one of the teams who were ahead of the game when it comes to this technology - they even bought out a company! But as yet, the status remains: we're working on it.
- F1.com has a nice little feature asking Vettel some questions that don't always have to do with Formula 1. It looks like this will be a series with more drivers coming soon, so worth keeping an eye on. Also, the man knows the ingredients to Red Bull Cola. I'm officially freaked out!
That should keep you busy for now, but we must stay tuned to the stewards in case they change their minds, or choose to investigate someone else, or maybe, finally, issue their report from Australia. While we wait, I'll see you in the comments.
aww, midnight came around again?
how did that happen?
Time for Honda ne...
...oh wait, we don't do that anymore...
I'm just glad I've got a day off tomorrow. I still don't think I've recovered from last weekend.
:D :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej7mvQBAzPQ :D
I watched this on Saturday, so funny! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaPepCVepCg
aaah lightweight. GP in 2 days :D
I had 4 days off work and became nocturnal, my body clock is all over the place.
and im doing 6 months coursework in a week, tit for tat :P
am just watching this again:
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2008/03/19/inside-track-kuala-lumpur-preview/
it's sort of mostly still relevant. aside from the standings.
You only have yourself to blame for that. :P
well, its a bit more complicated than that :D
now that brings back memories :-)
ive done most of it, i just have to work out how to present it, stupid technology. thank goodness im not doing graphics....i cant colour to save my life
Sounds about right, really...
I can't be the only person who blessed online submission when it arrived at the OU can I?
I'm like that for half of the time anyway!
Evening all, I was in the Museum of Scotland today and took these sly shots of the '98 Stewart Ford with my rubbishey camera phone.
http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/dsc00034-jpg
http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/dsc00035-jpg
how cool is that?
did you have a good time?
Now I do like tartan, but I'm not sure I like it on an F1 car.
Maybe it's just the Stewart tartan I dislike
have you been reading pitpass again?
;)
Funny MotoGP trail:
http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/09trail-mp4
After being the home of MotoGP for 20 years, Eurosport came close to losing the rights, but for a last minute reprieve.
Good to see they've got a sense of humour about it.
I know everyone is obsessed with the economy now but the idea that solar activity is tracking the market seems ever so slightly far fetched.
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/solar_minimum09.html
first pics from sepang:
http://my.ing-renaultf1.com/en/blog/996-Sepang-Thursday-02-04-09.html
the renault blog doesn't do criticism remember, so be nice ;)
@Jamesallenonf1 Lewis Hamilton has been summoned to the stewards at 1pm Malaysian time. They think he may have misled them in Oz and he may lose podium.
I firefighter from the firetruck that drove Heikki around the track on the parade lap in Melbourne just mailed me asking if I have photo of that truck so they could hang it somewhere in their fire station. and I do have :-)
Is it MORE likely that he'll lose the podium than keep it? Uh-oh.
COOLNESS! :D That. Is. Brilliant. :)
All it's missing now is Heikki's autograph. ;)
the autograph I have on a cap, not on the photo
If the radio transmissions show that Hamilton lied to the race stewards, according to what's been written elsewhere, he'll be excluded from the Australian Grand Prix results.
But the thing is, would he lie on purpose? Surely not?
This is really all that I can find about Lewis being summoned by race officials.
It was really unfortunate for Jarno (clearly a mis-understanding of intend which basically excluded him from the race because were under safety car and all bundled up). I really felt sorry for Toyota - they seem to have a good car but the FIA seems to have a thing for them.
Lewis apparently said he slowed down on Speed TV for Jarno to retake his position. I do not want to see Lewis lose all his points but similarly if this is the case it is grossly unfair on Jarno.
But if Lewis was indeed economical with the truth, they'll put Trulli back in 3rd and exclude Lewis instead.
Hamilton claimed his team told him to slow down to let Trulli past see quote below according to Speed TV
If McLaren did tell Lewis to slow (so Trulli would think he, Lewis, was told to slow to let him re-take his position) and then McLaren put in the complaint it was a sneaky move on McLaren to get a competitor excluded. Hopefully this is not the case.
I wonder how the stewards could not know about this. Weren't they told this by McLaren?
If that is true, then Lewis and McLaren may indeed end up getting excluded.
I remember Martin Whitmarsh complaining a lot about Trulli getting P3 at the BBC Interactive Forum. If McLaren did indeed order Lewis to slow and let Jarno through, this plus Whitmarsh's statements may come back to haunt them.
It never even crossed my mind that McLaren were being devious by advising Lewis to let Trulli repass.
My initial reaction to it, and it still stands, is that they were merely covering their own backsides and playing it conservatively, lest the stewards frown upon the fact that Lewis passed Jarno at all in the first place. Best to give the spot back, just in case...
Having said that, given those circumstances, the penalty awarded to Trulli was very harsh - what else was he meant to do at the time?
It all seems rather simple, and there's not a lot there that I think could have confused the stewards in the first instance, so one can only speculate that some of this new evidence rather markedly puts a new spin on the incident.
I do feel the stewards need to look into this - especially since Toyota decided not to contest the issue. Nobody can think the penalty on Trulli was fair given all the circumstances. From my inside source Jarno appears to be nice guy but as that source is somewhat aligned to Fernando it is not really objective.
Agreed - it has to be so significant that the FIA would reopen the case in spite of Toyota dropping the appeal.
This may help you figure out what happened: YouTube video.
One would certainly hope not.
The story has developed further, as James Allen has linked to a YouTube recording of Trulli's radio. It reveals that Trulli slowed down to try and let Hamilton past, but the latter refused to overtake the Toyota. This would seemingly provide pretty strong evidence that McLaren were under the impression that they should've relinquished the position.
Given the content of Trulli's radio recording, and what Hamilton told Speed, it would appear that the team did indeed tell him to slow down, and McLaren were incorrectly under the impression that this was the right thing to do.
The big question is what Hamilton said to the stewards. If he admitted slowing down following McLaren's instructions, then really the situation's not that serious, as it was clearly the stewards who messed up. There is some argument that Hamilton should then be dropped one position in the classification and Trulli promoted to third. This seems fair enough, although it'd be harsh on Hamilton, as the stewards should have acted correctly in the first place.
If, however, it turns out that Hamilton deliberately mislead the stewards, then that's an entirely different matter, and he'd have to consider himself very fortunate indeed if exclusion from Australia was the only punishment.
Uh oh. You know what happens when the press gets McLaren in trouble... they start cutting people off and closing their garage like they did during the 1998 season after the photographer took a photo of the second brake pedal.
I am looking forward to this Maylasian race... too bad qualifying and the race start at 2:00 AM my time. I don't know wither to get the majority of my sleep in before or after the race.
Agreed.
Good thing they're not allowed to do that anymore. They're required to have an open garage and an unencrypted radio channel.
Sure I do not have a problem here. However, IF McLaren then put in the complaint that Trulli passed Lewis under the safety car it would be unethical.
Providing McLaren did not lodge the complaint then it was the steward's decision.
I think this was more or less what Whitmarsh said after the race last Sunday.
I think McLaren DID lodge the complaint last Sunday; that's what Whitmarsh was implying.
Whilst the jury's still out on Hamilton's involvement, this reflects very badly on McLaren. Martin Whitmarsh gave an interview to the BBC straight after the race, and made it very clear that he expected the stewards to deal with the issue, and promote Hamilton to third. This was only a few minutes after the team were telling Hamilton to not re-pass Trulli!
Spygate didn't really negatively influence my opinion of the team, as they just got caught doing what everyone else was already up to. But this is very, very bad. It's looking like they pulled a stunt in order to get a rival (who happens to have a front-running car) heavily penalised.
They better have a good explanation for this. McLaren's rule under Whitmarsh has been a bit of a mess so far.
Oh, F1 driver in 'being economical with the truth' shocker!
If Lewis is found to have told fibs to the Stewards, then he should be reprimanded.
But honestly, did the stewards award the penalty on the sole basis of Lewis' testimony?
It does seem to me that the real story here, is that the FIA has realised the penalty on Trulli was far to harsh. It seemed a clear cut case of Trulli falling off the circuit under yellows, Lewis going past, then neither team knowing who should have the place.
Of course Lewis slowed to hand the place back on purpose – he knows from experience how arbitrary the stewards can be. It amazes me that the FIA thought otherwise.
All the Stewards needed to do was to swap the places over (Lewis in 3rd and Trulli in 4th) - the 25 second penalty was complete overkill. It looks as though they might use this excuse to right their own wrong.
It looks like it, yes, as well as whatever was beamed onto TV. They say they got new information from the data that was only stored and not shown on TV - radio transmissions, in particular.
The Stewards don't just reduce punishments because they find it to be 'overkill'. They never do that. They didn't need to do that, with Toyota dropping the appeal. So this had to be something of HUGE significance.
thanks for the link :)
Jarno Trulli: Occupational optimist. Nice
James Allen twitted:
The 'another team' must be BMW. I wonder how Hamilton's stew-ing with the stewards went. ;)
Err, no, I think that was a good move by Mclaren - if they had got it wrong, it could easily have been Lewis with the 25 second penalty.
If Lewis tried to give misleading info in the enquiry, then that is wrong (just wait for the 10 place grid drop for the next race!) - but just how gullible are these stewards?
But didn't they see France 2002? Their own car went off the track in the hands of Kimi, Michael passed him and won. Michael didn't get any penalty.
As Steven Roy said, these guys don't know anywhere nearly as much about racing as they need to. ;)
I've always thought one of Hamilton's worst traits is that he has a tendency to open his mouth and let words tumble out - any old words.
We will see shortly, but perhaps this is about to come back and bite him.
Agreed. Hamilton should be speaking to the press now. Not sure if the stewards have already released their verdict, though.
10 place grid drop won't hurt too much.
As for how gullible the stewards are? They believed Michael Schumacher on numerous occasions? ;)
They did get it wrong, though, which is why they're now facing an investigation. The question is whether the stewards were informed about McLaren's mistake at the time, or whether they where lied to by Hamilton.
If Lewis DID mislead the stewards on purpose, he'll probably be excluded from Australia, and perhaps have either a 10-place drop as well or get excluded for this weekend.
Yes, but that was Ferrari, so anything goes.
they were probbly thinking of Spa 2008 and France 2008.
Right now: Whitmarsh speaking on Hamilton-Trulli last Sunday.
http://www.justin.tv/mc_kik
"trulli retook the place... which ordinarily you wouldn't do."
Uh-oh. That contrasts with...
"the team asked me to let Trulli by."
I smell trouble for McLaren this afternoon.
Perhaps Brawn want to protest themselves.
After all, everyone else is doing it.
Has to be BMW - remember that their protest was thrown out last weekend due to some mistakes they made in filing the protest. So this is their chance to file it properly.
From the reports, it was Hamilton called to give evidence - so from his mouth this has come (even if under instruction of Mclaren).
However the story seems very confused at the moment - we should wait for this situation to be clarified.
Which is precisely what we're doing. Let's hope they don't take too long this time.
If this situation is as it appears to be, in terms of specific constructors' championship or financial penalties, I've got a sneaking suspicion that they'll get away with it, as it's Hamilton who's been summoned to the stewards. They don't seem interested in speaking to Whitmarsh et al.
I'm not so sure on that count. I don't remember an occasion where drivers points were deducted, but constructors points stayed intact. Also, since the McLaren team are involved, they may still get some punishment, even if no one gets called up.
Indeed. I'm hoping that we receive full access to whatever data is used by the stewards to make their decision, although this is probably being somewhat optimistic.
James Allen said we will gain access to it, but he isn't speaking on behalf of the FIA.
That said, his latest blog entry already has the Toyota team radio. It's a start.
What I meant was, although didn't make it particularly clear, that I don't believe there'll be any specific penalties applied to McLaren, over and above any punishment Hamilton is given.
Yeah, that will probably be the case.
That said, if Hamilton loses his 6 drivers points, McLaren will lose their 6 constructors points as well.
That was a great bit a insight. You have to suspect it was leaked by Toyota themselves, as it'd certainly be in their benefit to do so.
Agreed. ;)
It may turn out that Hamilton and McLaren were involved in an attempt to cover up a mistake, in order to get on the podium. So the above punishment could be applied to that offence.
But it looks very much like McLaren may have also plotted to screw Toyota over, one minute telling Hamilton he shouldn't be in third, and then the next creating a fuss because he's not.
All this radio communication does is confirm what Jarno originally said. Macca needs to release theirs to confirm what was said to Hamilton and that he was told to let Jarno through.
From the above Jarno should be given third and Lewis fourth (Jarno went wide and Lewis had no choice but to overtake, Lewis slowed down and Jarno had no choice but to overtake). Basically the two mistakes even themselves out.
IF MACCA then lodged the protest in an attempt to get Toyota pushed down the field then I am afraid they should lose all their points in Australia or both cars start Malaysia from the pitlane (yea that is tough on Lewis, but it was tough on the Toyota drivers to start the race from pitlane due to a manufacturing error by Toyota). I hope this is not the case.
Trulli's radio also gives us something extra - he slowed down to let Hamilton past, but the McLaren driver wouldn't overtake.
According to James Allen it get worse
Personally I just want see some points restored to Jarno (3rd or 4th) otherwise it just so unfair.
I don't think it would have made any difference to Hamilton but if true the stewards may have been more lenient to Trulli and simply "corrected" the positions dropping him to fourth rather than relegating him to the back.
Or is that idea far too sensible for the stewards?
Vettel's penalty might be dropped Finnish link
I see James has discovered the delights of the Avillion in Port Dickson. Mega place, that.
http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/flat-out-on-the-straits/
Morning everybody. :)
English link
Yes but if a driver slows and goes completely off the driving line (as Hamilton did in his own words) and Trulli re-overtakes the positions should stand (two mistakes counter each other).
I would still be happy for Trulli to get some points.
Lewis Hamilton has been excluded from the results of the Australian GP. More information as it emerges. from Joe's blog
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/hamilton-excluded-from-australian-gp-results/
I firefighter from the firetruck that drove Heikki around the track on the parade lap in Melbourne just mailed me asking if I have photo of that truck so they could hang it somewhere in their fire station. and I do have {Comment #26}
Excellent! :)
Hamilton excluded from OZ GP result: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/hamilton-excluded-from-australian-gp-results/
Dagnabit! Beaten to the 'post button'! :-D
Another day, another bit of results meddling from stewards and FIA, strewth.
so it means Force India have their first F1 point
I bet Buemi's impressed how good at overtaking he's got when in the points since the end of the GP.
:D
I know the feeling. Sorry to hear about your blog, by the way.
Why so late in handing out this punishment. Giving Jarno back points or swapping Lewis with Jarno's position is one thing. If Lewis did lie (big if) let his points stand and give him a grid penalty in Malaysia at most. Or is it because his team tried to pull some dirty tricks?
no, No, NO!!!! GAAAAHHH!!!
Someone just said this to me on twitter
That's the way it feels at the moment. We've have about 3 or 4 different places now this week for Australia and I don't think we're done yet, we still have the diffusers row as well..
Are you sure? - because Trulli get his points back according to autosport.
Force India may have its first point (congratulations Adrian :) ) but I'm not happy about it. I don't see anything Lewis is supposed to have done that even carries exclusion as a possible penalty.
Justice would have been to restore poor Jarno to his podium position, give Lewis the 25-second penalty instead and swap round any silverware that needs swapping.
oh, Force may not get the point ... Sutil was 9th, Trulli 12th. Trulli goes to 3rd, Sutil stays 9th ...
force india still wont score any points - trulli will retake 3rd. i think mclaren did something naughty to get excluded and not just get the 25sec penalty. so this means ferrari, mclaren, and bmw end up with a combined grand total of ZERO points after australia.
Thanks Stuart. Funny you should mention it by the way, received something rather interesting in the post this morning from the energy drinks company in question. At least more upbeat than the last piece of communication I received from them!
I need to have a quick word with them, and who knows it might come back soonish.
I have Steven Roy to thank for this!
Phew... I am beginning to suffer in my boycot of said product!
@ Dank - it sounds like a positive news
This is worse than bloody BATracer!
I think he should record some of his e-rants and release them as an audio book.
I'm gutted Hamilton has been excluded, Gutted - what a silly way to overshadow a great drive :(
I hope it doesn't go further and Hamilton/McLaren get further punishment.
Some weeks there seems to be more overtaking after the race than during it.
And before it! There was pre and post drama like never before in Australia. What a way to start the season. I wonder how new fans would have reacted to all the penalties and will they even know about the post-race drama?
Funny how this only happens to Hamilton and Mclaren though?
http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/lewis-hamilton-and-safety-car-board-jpg
I thought I post this picture when we discuss Hamilton and safety car :-)
It's always a real shame that results get overturned at such a late stage and it's easy to blame the stewards for meddling etc, but at the end of the day if there was lying going on then the blame for all this has to lie with McLaren and Lewis, and no-one else.
Numpties!
FIA
****in' Idiots All
What the hell is the point of watching a race now?
Assuming the diffusers get banned Alonso will be declared the winner and STR take up the rest of the podium. What a race for Buemi for his first GP1!
So we get up at 5am to watch a race, only to have a result overturned twice later on - why did the stewards not wait until all the info was in to make a decision?
That would be sensible and right.
Thats not the FIA way!
I said the other day that I wasn't a very good driver right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWYHjyCO0Ts
yeah... Barrichello obviously had more of an effect on me at Australia that I thought.
Aww man, this is pathetic - I'm so mad right now!
So, McLaren/Hamilton is over agressive at Spa last year and gets a penalty.
This time, they're extremely cautious and get a penalty... A worse penalty.
The FIA couldn't find their arse with both hands, a mirror and a map!
We really need to know FIA's explanation - if Macca lodged a complaint against Trulli and have been found out telling Lewis to pull over and to let Trulli behind the team deserves big punishment (this would be a really bad, unethical and hugely dishonest). We need to wait though before getting too upset.
Surely the stewards work with the information they have at the time? It's not their fault if new evidence comes in. They can't just sit and wait in case a radio transmission is provided?
Very true. But yet again, another heavy penalty is handed to Mclaren in a dodgy manner.
Why is it dodgy?
But it sounds like they made a decision without checking both team's radio transmissions. Odd, because Hamilton made a statements referring to communication with the team to pull over. Have the FIA gone and messed up again?
Because we had to wait until Thursday with the stewards re-opening the case. When was the last time the stewards re-opened an inquiry? Last time Mclaren tried to appeal a drive-thru, it was deemed inadmissible. Now when the tables are turned, Toyota didn't even need to follow proper process to overturn it.
Look, it will probably turn out that Hamilton deserved the penalty. I just wish that we could have a series where the chequered flag falls and the race is decided then and there...
*applauds*
Well done. :D
True but it seems a bit off that they can appeal their own decisions but nobody else can. Why can't teams make an appeal to be heard by the stewards at the next race?
If a drive-thru penalty appeal is inadmissable, how come it can be overturned? Is that not the same thing?
Hmmm.. I really wonder what on earth Lewis/McLaren could have said that was so heinous as to warrant exclusion from the race.
At the moment it simply looks like we have replaced on injustice with another.
It is interesting to see that the '25second penalty' can now be reconsidered after the event. So much for 'This cannot be appealed'
Once again this highlights how the Stewarding process in F1 is cumbersome, political and frankly not fit for purpose.
As I said before, I don't see anyone else to blame but McLaren and Hamilton.
Lewis appears before the stewards and gives his side of the story, Trulli does the same and so they then decide based on that info that Trulli was in the wrong.
Now they have evidence that Jarno was the innocent party and that Lewis effectively lied to them in order to get the 3rd place.
What else could they do but apologise to Trulli, give him the place back and penalise Hamilton?
Should the stewards just say that they made a mistake but not correct it? Two wrongs don't make a right and all that!
I thought Toyota gave up their appeal because they knew it wouldn't go through?
It's going to be all over the news today – Channel 4 have just rung me up wanting to go on the lunchtime show...
...and Trulli sticks his oar in
To warrant a disqualification for what effectively mounts to no on-track misdemeanor or advantage, it must've been one hell of a story Lewis told the stewards.
go you!
wow :)
If Macca manipulated a situation to ensure Trulli had no option but to overtake and when he tried to give back the place Hamilton refused to accept it and then Macca lodged a complaint to effectively get Trulli and Toyota excluded - this is HUGE it is as BAD as their SPYING, no I think it is WORSE as it is more DELIBERATE. Having said this there are IFs which FIA in the name of transparency need to clarify.
Although people are attacking the Stewards, if a Team is found out to be deliberately lying and to falsely lodge a complaint what are they supposed to do? If I was FIA and Macca was proven to have done this (hopefuly not) I would say fine and exclude Macca for the next three races instead (Honda BAR lost race results and opportunity to race in the next two events for a much smaller offence). Again this is an IF - McLaren could be innocent but they need to defend their innocence with real data (telemetry and recordings of their radio transactions).
I am glad to hear Trulli has his podium back. McLaren were the ones in the wrong, not Toyota, and they have been penalised for it.
I do hope the FIA tell us exactly what McLaren did wrong like they said they would though...
so
hamilton is disqualified from the australian race.
i really should be paying attention more.
Oh, hats off to Toyota. They know the appeals process is flawed so they fought this battle through the press, releasing the information they wanted into the public domain. Think about it, who revealed what was said in the steward's meeting? The stewards, Hamilton or Trulli?
It's not off to a great start is it?!
I wouldn't go that far – it's the age-old problem TV has when a story breaks during a flyaway GP: everybody is out there so they can't come in to the studio. So they cast around in a rush for anyone they can get hold of.
Anyway, I declined on the grounds that I've got too much other stuff on today to be able go up to London and back (it's an hour each way from here).
In any case, half the time these TV stations give you the runaround and then don't use the piece they recorded because you don't say what they want to hear (see 'Minstrel-gate').
go you!
have just woken up, so forgive me if this has been said, but JA just tweeted:
"McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh denies that Lewis lied to the stewards, he says the team just didn't provide a clear enough explanation"
The book won't write itself!
Although it would be good if it could, in a Fantasia stylee...
washing your hair? I understand about getting the run around - ask them to fly you in to London in a chopper :)
no, but it's still quite cool to decline c4, whatever the reason.
The issue looks to be so much bigger - evidence presented could be interpreted that McLaren manipulated a situation and then falsely lodged a complaint to get its competitor excluded. If true it is unbelievably heinous - hopefully it is not true as F1 does not need yet another scandal.
Vettel: "I'm very sorry for this, I relly am"
compared to
Mclaren: "Um, um.. umm.. yeah, this is what happened, no wait, THIS is what happened!"
I was contemplating finding a large dog poo to send to the FIA as a indication of my opinion of them
I then realised that they already have a useless piece of excrement at the FIA, and unfortunately, it's in charge.
Actually, as it's not a drive through, McLaren can appeal.
Is it worth their effort though only to get excluded from 3 races ratehr than just that one?
It's got a touch of Vicky Pollard about it, don't you think?
Phone went again. Will be doing a piece on BFBS radio at 12.20, although I'm not sure if it's live or being recorded for later.
Radio is good, because you can do it from home and don't need a shave.
Is that not just Maccatalk (like during the spying no information from Ferrari was used and no one other than two drives and the guilty party knew anything!)
I just went all the way to my Sky+ box to press record and now you tell me you declined... Ah well... ;)
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/mclaren-will-not-appeal/ - Joe says they will not appeal.
I get that. I've done a lot of radio, and often just eating during the breaks too. you don't have to worry if you have a piece of spinach in your teeth.
force india still wont score any points - trulli will retake 3rd. {Comment #100}
It needed to be done, but it still stings. What is it about the FIA that makes stuff get done in the most awkward way possible, if it is done at all?
At least this will simplify the whole relocation-of-trophiage thing.
James Allen has thoughts and the link to Toyota's radio conversations
I hope Joe won't be too busy because of this mess for the iepocat.
what happens with Fantasy Racers?
Even Joe Saward observed...
But did Macca lodge the complaint in the first place to initiate the procedure?
results stand.
They can’t just sit and wait in case a radio transmission is provided? {Comment #129}
I thought the stewards were supposed to have access to all the radio transmissions now? Maybe they're not used to the idea that they can use all those lovely unencrypted transmissions (including McLaren's newly-unencrypted one) to help them do their job yet.
bfbs?
okay. I still haven't checked my score anyway, so I'm not sure which scenario would be better.
It’s going to be all over the news today – Channel 4 have just rung me up wanting to go on the lunchtime show… {Comment #131}
Nice one Stuart! Even if you did turn it down, it's good to hear that people will consider getting your point of view for something like that.
Hope the "booky wook" is going well. I'm doing a Script Frenzy screenplay, but I bet your finished product ends up better than mine :)
here's the link i forgot
http://www.ssvc.com/bfbs/radio/
?
To be honest it would take a long time to go through it all (radio transmissions). When a team lies/deceives or in Maccatalk not provide clear enough an explanation what are they supposed to do? Most people would not believe a team would deliberately lies/deceive or in Maccatalk not provide clear enough an explanation! This is seriously bad for Macca especially as they always claim the moral high ground and more integrity than any one else.
To warrant a disqualification for what effectively mounts to no on-track misdemeanor or advantage, it must’ve been one hell of a story Lewis told the stewards. {Comment #133}
Especially since lying to the stewards has never attracted so much as a fine before! Even swearing at them has been a more serious offence until now.
Radio is good, because you can do it from home and don’t need a shave. {Comment #151}
Cool! Hope it goes well.
So if Hamilton's excluded from the Melbourne result, are we sure that everybody below him will move up the scoring?
Is that not just Maccatalk (like during the spying no information from Ferrari was used and no one other than two drives and the guilty party knew anything!) {Comment #152}
Since the WMSC, despite all efforts, never showed otherwise and the eventual apology from McLaren didn't actually admit being guilty of anything more serious than there being "impressions" of worse things than they said had happened (which given the FIA's behaviour at that time would have been very straightforward to do), I have no reason to believe the Maccatalk in that case was anything other than the truth.
that is so much more rock n' roll than tv ;)
As far as I'm aware, they haven't said if that changes or not
yes but since Trulli got his third place back everyone will move down again :)
I've just had a possibly-dangerous thought. Is this why the FIA didn't publish the steward's report? It hadn't come out yesterday and the entire Australia media centre section is now conveniently hidden behind a password.
pretty much what we were speculating last night. why dangerous though?
I had the same thought earlier too. I'm sure they were debating this still which is why they didn't release the report.
all the media centre items are behind a password. i believe the level of transparency is therefore only "translucent"
James again has a blog post about Whitmarsh's statement to the press
He means Trulli not Lewis (*it’s quite clear that Lewis shouldn’t have passed him*), right?
To quote Ren and Stimpy. Happy happy joy joy! :(
I think it's all publicity ;) F1 needs to reach out to fans and sponsors - think of the publicity the teams are getting - they've found a great way to get media attention mid week... sigh...
anyone fancy keeping a list of people on twitter who swear they'll never watch f1 again? wouldn't mind seeing how long it is until they tweet about f1 again :)
:)
pretty much what we were speculating last night. why dangerous though? {Comment #177}
Wouldn't want to be thought of as suggesting that the FIA are being opaque on purpose to further their power-throwing schemes/act against Hamilton/McLaren, would I? Martin Brundle suggested it very gently 18 months ago and got quite a flea in his ear if I remember correctly...
Can we lodge an appeal?
all the media centre items are behind a password. {Comment #179}
The one for whatever race is current isn't. You can reach it through the front page quite openly.
You wouldn't be the same sidepodcast who said: "have just woken up, have read the f1 news, am now going back to bed. when does the cricket/bowls/curling season start?"
;)
Can we lodge an appeal? {Comment #187}
That would, I suspect, be nearly as pointless as a McLaren appeal to the Court of Appeal would have been.
yup. although that's to avoid the twitter onslaught ;)
I thought we were going for darts? Sidepoddart or something.
ooh darts.
Please not this again!
So, it looks like either Mclaren lied, were monumentally stupid or were caught in a trap by someone. None of these are good.
Well i'm crossing Trulli off my xmas card list........him saying he's glad justice is done. Pah pull the other one Jarno. He's a walking contradiction, complaing about Hammy moving around in braking areas, what did Jarno do on Sunday?..oh that was it, jinked left and right in front of Hammy while braking. Who does he think he is?!
Jarno fell off the track..simple isn't it, Hammy managed to stay on all through the race.
Penalties brought about by grey ares in the rules makes the sport look stupid.
I'm having one helluva time trying to explain the actual situation to casual fans at work and all i'm getting is blank faces back. Sick of the sport I love making me look an idiot.
how much controversy can you have in darts i wonder?
Well i’m crossing Trulli off my xmas card list……..him saying he’s glad justice is done. Pah pull the other one Jarno. {Comment #195}
Jarno getting his place back was justice. Lewis losing 4th was not.
James seems to have a take on it which seems quite likely. McLaren thought the FIA had listened to the radio discussion before they came to their decision.
It turns out that the FIA didn't which is what caused the confusion. And because McLaren didn't repeat what they had said to Lewis on the radio because they felt the FIA would have already heard it. This caused the FIA to think that McLaren deceived them.
If all of that is true, and it sounds like the usual bungling of stewards we've come to expect. Couldn't we throw the FIA out for not obeying their own rules and examining all of the evidence they have in front of them before coming to a decision?
All this resulting from two drivers trying to do the polite thing for each other on the track - only in F1 could it end this way...
ahh, well that seems reasonable.
I would say about 180
:D
Morning (just) all. Just found this, don't know if you have heard it yet but it's an interesting listen.
how much controversy can you have in darts i wonder? {Comment #196}
There are two world leagues and players in one cannot join the other.
There can be a lot of controversy in darts...
yeah, i wanna hear the mclaren side of the convo.
ludo?
If that's the case then the stewards have twisted the situation to suit their own ends ... which happens a lot against the McLaren boys.
And what exactly Lewis said to the stewards in Australia
:D
you the conclusion now is that rather than the fia supporting ferrari, they just dislike mclaren?
true. i wonder if they record those?
Jarno fell off the track, Lewis didn't so how is Jarno justified in getting his 3rd place back??
It's not like Hamilton forced him off etc is it?!
Not very likely unfortunatly
Probably zero chance.
What happened to the FIA explaining their penalties this year?
We know Max and Ron have 'history'...
They haven't kept the same one long enough, have they?
i say give 'em time. it's only 7pm where they are.
:D
:D
I guess not! :)
Any chance of Lewis being re-instated?
ludo? {Comment #206}
Yeah, I think you're safe with that :)
The FIA are just playing the hokey cokey
You put a driver in,
you take one out
in out in out
change the rules about..
Slim and none I would say.
Then again, Toyota got their place back without even appealing so who knows?
From google:
you the conclusion now is that rather than the fia supporting ferrari, they just dislike mclaren? {Comment #210}
I thought Max just didn't like Ron, but Martin's in charge. This behaviour from the FIA is petty. Maybe he's just mad because the $100m fine didn't stop them from winning the next year's championship. I'm trying to see some good reasons in their decision here and can't see any. The opacity of the FIA isn't helping matters either.
Exactly...
Come on, this happens too many times to Mclaren to be a coincidence
Jarno fell off the track, Lewis didn’t so how is Jarno justified in getting his 3rd place back?? {}
Because Lewis later slowed to the point where Jarno had to go through on the basis of Article 40.7. Both of them made an error, albeit of a different kind from one another, the mistakes were of the same severity, so they cancel each other out. The drivers followed the rules as best as they were able - it was the FIA that confused matters.
I did have a thought the other day. McLaren have suddenly been saying over the last few days that the reason their car was slow was because they had to spend so much energy on the 2008 season. But when haven't they spent time working at the end of the season. Certainly not after 2007 and then they won in 2008 so it doesn't stack up.
However we also know that McLaren work on their cars for 18 months. So they have a long lead time. This makes me wonder... Is this car the first one which would have been hampered by the $100 Million fine not the 2008?
Williams video showing how their flywheel KERS system works: http://www.williamsf1.com/multimedia/video/82
I just love the added spice in all of this that the Toyota was deemed illegal before the race even started because of it's flexible wings. Is this all about just hammering McLaren at every possible chance. Why should we wait a week for results!!
Well they did fix that bit of the car before the race though.
Do you think if it was a McLaren it would've been allowed to race?...........
FIA again....Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhh
Yes.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/
James Allen seems to think the FIA want to refer the McLaren to the WMSC for further investigation and possible punishment.
What system are McLaren using? Electrical or flywheel?
I once had a dream once where a race was decided on the track in the race and that was it. It was a good dream :)
Again... I know it seems like there is a witch-hunt. And I know that McLaren get a lot of penalties and I know Ferrari seem to come off better. But this doesn't affect Ferrari at all. And during the Alonso time it was all about them hating Renault.
There may well be a bias towards Ferrari. But I would bet it is far more likely that the whole thing is incompetence than malice.
Electrical. Batteries are in the sidepods rather than under the fuel tank.
Agreed.
James Allen on twitter: "Full recordings of Mclaren radio, a copy of the interview LH gave after the race and transcripts will be published soon on FIA & F1 website"
I go for anti-McLaren rather than Pro Ferrari
Ah, good.
Off topic I know, but anyone who hasn't booked any travel tickets for the sidepodscience meetup should take a look at megabus.com. I've just got Huddersfield to London, half way on bus the the rest on train, for £3.
When is this happening? I remember hearing about it on a podcast when the topic first came up, but nothing since...
15th April
http://wiki.sidepodcast.com/page/Science+Museum+Meet+Up
Totally agree
Can you explain the situation during the Renault / Ferrari years?
Things I learned today: there is a rule that disallows sponsors to specifically place their logos for onboard cameras.
I wondered why the Virgin logo on the Brawn wasn't facing the other way last weekend!
Hmmm, return journeys are an issue. It seems to be either leave London at 7pm or 11pm. 11 is no good because I'm probably going to be at work the next day, but if from what I've heard of previous meets 7 is far too early!
I've just left a voicemail that I felt needed to be said, just in case you listen later and wonder :)
Why?
And how can you explain Alonso's penalty at Monza 2006, if it wasn't some kind of Ferrari bias?
Im on the 1830 back up north, so won't be enjoying any alcohol-related shenanigans
All I mean is that at the time people seemed to say that it was all about either an Anti-Renault or Pro-Ferrari bias.
The decisions seem to be so random and farcical and so much against and pro so many different teams that it leads me to suspect incompetence.
Either that or the stewards saw the Toyota was red and that's what swung it for them.
Phew! That was a tricky broadcast. Jasmine started scratching at the door and yowling so I had to deploy the laser pointer pen while in full flow.
You can't do that on the TV...
We're not talking about Renault or Ferrari are we?!
Is the point not being suggested that it ISN'T a Ferrari bias, more a case of McLaren being the black sheep and getting sometimes undue and overly harsh penalties?
I think McLaren's naviety/incompetence leaves the door wide open for abuse from the FIA, but when the FIA do issue penalties etc they tend to be overkill
Stewards incompetence again ruined a perfectly good race.
How can this be seen as 'pro-Ferrari' when Ferrari are not involved?
Unless... Toyota are Red, Ferrari are Red - THE FIA IS PRO-RED!!!
I didn't see this many complaints when Toyota got the 25 second penalty for doing nothing wrong. Why should McLaren be the victims if they actually do something wrong?
That's what I thought but I can't find any pictures of a McLaren with electrical warning symbols. Somebody else besides Williams is supposed to be using a mechanical system so...
The sooner Brawn use the Virgin livery, the better! ;)
Enough people on here complained saying it was harsh on Trulli, 4th place yes but not last..
that's a fair argument. however, toyota don't have that many fans :)
Donington having problems:
http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/Tunnel-trouble-Donington/article-866705-detail/article.html
I'm sure it's only a temporary problem but it's hardly going to get them good press is it?
Can you explain the situation during the Renault / Ferrari years? {Comment #247}
By suggesting that the FIA is anti-Ferrari and pro-McLaren? And not particularly good at applying its own regulations to boot?
I complained. 25 seconds is harsh, disqualification is obscene.
Getting funny looks as I'm chortling to that! :-D
you've done this before!
I don't think McLaren are naive. Vettel might be naive for what he did...
i did not know that.
Booked! Sidepodscience here I come! Had to get the 1900 bus back in the end. Still time for a couple of drinks though!
Not 2 bombshells in one day - I can't take that!!!
Me neither, it looks to me like they made a deliberate attempt to pull the wool over the stewards' eyes, hoping they'd be too incompetent to spot it. Manipulative, lying, cheating and calculating are adjectives better suited I think...
But Toyota did nothing wrong, and McLaren did?
I wouldn't go that far but I'd say that was closer to what happened.
The stewards don't have any other choice when handing out seemingly harsh penalties. Badly written rules are to blame.
I didn’t see this many complaints when Toyota got the 25 second penalty for doing nothing wrong. {Comment #259}
At the time (when there was a lot less information about) it looked like a legitimate penalty, if one that was harsher than I would have liked. It was a case of law and justice being unable to be served at the same table.
The information that's come in over the week has basically exonerated Jarno from the charges brought against him. If we'd known all this on Sunday Jarno would have been more strongly defended. The trouble now is that a new scapegoat got generated in the process, so the focus is on the new injustice rather than berating ourselves over implicitly accepting the old one.
The simplest thing to have done was to swap Trulli and Hamilton (orignally). 25 seconds is too harsh!
They impressed me this weekend. I am not a fan, but they impressed. ;)
And because Mclaren are part of this it becomes too easy to blame them.
And on the other hand I'm not sure, with the current level of incompetence I'd really like the stewards having too much discretion. But as Gavin says swapping them would have been better.
I don't 'support' Toyota but I wouldn't mind seeing Timo win... (that's why I picked him in my Fantasy Racers team)
True, but I still find both penalties over the top.
Sepang is looking a little bit dark: http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z1238656812.jpg
VERY dark in fact! Apparently that was taken this afternoon!
That Dark cloud is the controversy caused by the monkeys who call the race decisions...
Would all this rubbish have been caused if ex-drivers were stewards? Somehow, I think not...
Probably my antique computer-telly, but surely it can't be that dark? It's almost pitch-black!
I'm more and more thinking that Football gets this much more right than we do. The result stands regardless of anything else. And fines are handed out. What the referee decides during the race is final. Unless new footage is discovered. In that case players have match bans. This is harder to police in F1 because banning a driver from a race is a much more serious thing.
We wouldn't have a penalty for the Vettel-Kubica incident for a start!
I'm still don't understand why a penalty was required for that??
In NASCAR, results stand, regardless of penalty. Maybe F1 should do this.
Simple. Vettel told the stewards he was at fault. They don't say nice guys finish last for nothing you know!
oh lord, last time we suggested that, we got a bunch of grief for saying that. however, i do agree.
hmmm. that is weird.
But what did he do that was against the rules? (Apart from continuing to drive, which Red Bull were fined for)
The problem with that is what punishment do you actually give? A fine would be of ltitle deterrent to the top drivers or teams, a grid penalty for the next race isn't all that bad if your cheating has just bagged you 8 (or 10) guaranteed points, where next time round you've no idea whether you'll be riding round in last place, the only other option would be race bans: - and that would be perceived as even more harsh.
Nothing. He just acted like a sportsman and admitted fault.
You can see the track no problem though.
There is a lot less going on to cause controversy in football though. Plus in F1 there is physically more things going on for the stewards to watch, it's like one ref and two linesmen trying to run 5 football matches at once.
It's not foolproof - see this year's Daytona 24 hours for a bad example. But in this case, so what if a driver loses two points? It's much less hassle than all this rubbish.
Still, it gets F1 in the news, which will please Bernie.
The problem is that you then end up pushing too much into the next race.
How about this...
Team championship points can be docked after a team decision but this doesn't affect the race result.
If a driver unfairly gained a position like this kind of thing they get a warning (like a yellow card I guess). The warning lasts for the next three races (including over the end of a season). If they have another incident where they are judged at fault they start from the back of the next race.
This is the biggest problem then - penalties should only ever be handed out if somebody has broken the rules. You'd think that would be obvious.
that would work if it extended to drivers too. if hamilton kept third, but lost points.
That's what NASCAR do IIRC...
Exactly. I am much more outraged by Vettel's penalty than Lewis's.
How random. I just made it up!
I'm just plain mad. God damn those stewards!
righteo, i'd better go and earn some money and head off to work. speak to you guys later tonight :)
Yeah. I thought about that... But I'm not sure if I'd rather have the FIA doing less interfering than they are. They need a lighter touch.
i agree with vettel's penalty. i haven't read enough about today's to be sure.
Actually, in Hungary 2007, McLaren lost their constructors points because they were deemed to have mislead the stewards after Alonso held up Lewis in the pits
ahh, good point.
Why does he need a penalty. What did he do that was against the rules?
But Kubica turned in on him?
They both deserve a fine and a clip round the ear. Crashing out was harsh enough for me.
Disagree. If somebody gains a result through illegal methods, that result should not stand. It's not fair on everyone else competing to the rules.
The problem F1 has is it's not clear what's against the rules and what's not.
Why do they a deserve a fine? A mistake was made and both lost podium finishes. Isn't that punishment enough?
I still think that Vettel was not really any more at fault than Kubica. But there's really no point in going over all that again. But I can see the arguments for thinking it was more Vettel though.
Did it deserve a penalty though? That's the bit I don't get.
Anybody thought maybe the FIA actually enjoy courting all this controversy.
Get's the viewers in for the next race..........
Yeah but if the FIA feel the need to penalise someone they should have done that.
It was a racing incident. No-one was at fault and both crashing out was punishment enough!
Red Bull did for keeping Vettel out on the three tires I think.
Gets people talking about F1 too, as you can see from the amount of comments we've left today.
Sadly, it may be true.
Agreed. That fine was the right decision. That should have been the end of it.
I'm thinking it's of interest to dedicated fans but could be off-putting to fans who only watch the race every Sunday and tune in to find different results to what they thought they saw the previous week. If that happened a few times it could be a deterrent to casual fans
So 'me', since when are all driving mistakes deserving of a penalty? ;)
It's a deterrent to me as well, but I'll keep watching. Don't add me to the twitter list...
I'd just like to do a nice and loud James May style
Oh ****!
Just run so new cables in the flat - all behind the skirting boards, all very nice and professional. Took ages to get laid properly.
Just realised that the one going from my main gigabit switch to my small desktop gigabit switch is a patch cable instead of a crossover cable so it won't work. This was the hardest cable of the lot to run.
Damn.
Lunchtime. Coke, cake and Star Wars I think.
Cog? :-)
Ha!
One of the girls in my office just said F1 is in danger of disappearing up it's on backside, taking itself far too seriously.
Bless her, it made me chuckle
:D
I've decided after some very gooey chocolate cake touse my cable making skills and make a little adaptor to change the patch cable into a crossover cable with just a little 6" extension on it.
I can't be bothered to rip it all out again.
Steward's decision:
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2009/Pages/f1_stewards_decision.aspx
Oh dear. Mclaren are very silly to do this after the shenanigans of 2007. What have they done?
Best comment of the day, because I think WE take it all too seriously. In the end, if we don't like controversy, we're watching the wrong bloody sport.
Screw Truli & Hamilton, I feel sorry for the poor fellas at fantasy racers that have to change all the points around again.
I don't understand why they would think that lying to the stewards was good idea, or that they thought they would get away with it. Very very silly.
Who actually lodged the complaint against Trulli? I certainly heard Martin say it was unfair Trulli finishing third. Does this match with McLaren telling Lewis to give back position to Trulli? McLaren have lied on that point, what needs answering is did they attempt to set up the situation by lodging a complaint. If they did lodge the complaint then they are looking for serious trouble.
For those who blame Trulli - what was he supposed to do? At least his verbal accounts match the radio transmissions.
http://www.fushnchups.co.nz/2009/04/carnage-at-the-crossroads/
Here's a bit of a laugh for you ... I think we need it!
I can't believe how much I am liking James Allen's blog today...apparently the radio transmissions will be up around "1:30" today on the f1.com and the FIA site. not if sure if they is Malaysian time,(in the morning) or UK time, but they're not around just yet.
...and I only managed the lofty heights of 335th due to Lewis coming 3rd :(
apologies about the audio not being around - McLaren's is at the bottom of the page that Maverick posted 10 minutes ago.
It is? LOL and I posted it!
Just got this from fantasy racers:
Thursday 2nd April 13:25am - Lewis Hamilton's disqualification & Trulli's reinstatement to 3rd will NOT be updated in respect of this competition. Please see the 'Help & Information / Other Rules' page.
yeah i skimmed over it looking for the audio and didn'T see it at first either -a lthough it was obvious! (they've even put a pdf transcript with it)
hmm. 13:25am. what kind of time zone is that? :) I think every betting/fantasy league has to make a decision on when i final decision is well...final. especially with f1 ;(
summary post about Trulli/Hamilton for the late comers
Hamilton excluded from Australian Grand Prix, Trulli is 3rd
McLaren audio and steward's official decision
Toyota's audio on JA's blog
Does anyone know what 'positive delta' and 'black F2' mean in the McLaren audio?
Looks to me like a case of symantics.
According to McLaren: 'We were discussing with Lewis if he should let Trulli past or not when Trulli re-past'
According to the FIA: Were you ordered by the team to let Trulli past? Lewis: 'no'
Does a 'dicussion' constitue an 'order'?
Perhaps McLaren would be good enouph to publish the radio conversation so we can hear exactly what was said?
Fantastic! Would prefer if Lewis had the actual points but I need all the points I can get in this competition!
very much agreed :)
I think that was actually a quote from an old F1 journalist. Steven?
I'm not taking any of this seriously. There'll be another appeal tomorrow ;)
Oh Dear! I don't know what to think. I hope the truth will come out one day. Even if that truth is hard to swallow, I want to know.
I fear going to sleep because when I wake up, Piquet may have won in Australia.
:)
Quite. Avoid eating cheese before bed, and don't watch the trailer for that new film Invasion of the Talented-Driver Snatchers...
hello everyone. Wow looks like i've missed quiet a bit today, but to be honest i'm not the least bit surprised. At least they are sticking to tradition- disqualify a driver from the 2008 Aus GP, disqualify a driver from the 2009 Aus GP. gold stars for effort. ;)
Not with all the appeals in the world.
:D
Piquet is so slow that even if every other driver was disqualified, the safety car would still beat him!
you've also missed Button being interviewed about what it's like to have the best car (!), and he listed what cars he thought would be a threat - he never listed McLaren....
looks like we aren't the only ones that are bored with all the politics :) :D
have you seen that thing?
I'd love to hear Christine's reaction to that on the Podcast following that news!
i have.... *goes to search for interview*
There is only one stat you need to know lou - in the last 10 years, 8 of the championships have been won by the driver that won in Oz.
The truth is Macca told Lewis to let Trulli through. FIA have evidence that Lewis pulled out of the racing line and Trulli re-took the position. Trulli also wanted to give the position back and Lewis was told to hold position.
Realistically we do not know how much this was Macca stupidity or malevolence in trying to get Toyota disqualified.
Martin's account to the press though definitely qualifies as bullshit as defined by Frankfurt
see http://cogprints.org/5802/
also, jenson like fish and chips.
language!
i'm not getting my hopes up... we still have 16 races left, lots can happen in 7 months :) i'm not going to wish away that time :D but that is a very awesome stat :D
Katherine just sent me an e-mail which kind of sums things up I guess:
Don't worry Lou, I'll tell her about Jenson and Rubens ;)
lol are you suggesting i make him fish and chips? :P he likes chicken stir fry too.... although thankfully (i'm no stalker :) ) i only know that because James Martin thought him how to make it once on tv...
people used to say f1 was elitist because of the money that was required to compete. now f1 is elitist because of the effort required to keep on top of it.
Link
'thingy'? 'watsisname'?... meh it's better than one of my friends who called Jenson - Jason, and Rubens - Ronald. :D
Ronald! I love it.
I am using it as per Frankfurt an eminent philosoper. The link I used is a peer-reviewed journal research paper. It has all of the traces of euphemism, half truth, disconnection of ideas etc.
I normally avoid swearing but it was used with very precise definition.
understood, but swearing encourages more swearing. i blame the kids of today ;)
define 'kids' ;)
hehe.
haha :D
Lets change the subject from the B*******
I looked at Fantasy Racers (not that I am going to change anything) - Jenson is now costing 11.7 - I am waiting for it to get higher than Lewis before celebrating with champagne (well the fake stuff like it!) Even Rubens costs 10 million - almost as much as Kimi (10.2). Hopefully this should cheer Lou up. I also wanted to put ? Jenson but feared it would be taken the wrong way. I certainly believe he was far the smoothest driver on the circuit last weekend.
My local news site headline: "Hamilton stripped of title"
Now THERES a punishment that would make the internet implode!
Yeah I saw that. If they're not racing taxis, they don't care in the media down there :-(
:D
Onboard footage of Trulli passing Hamilton now available:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7978186.stm
thank you. any thoughts?
Yup.
My internet connection is so bad today that I can't watch that in one go. :(
I'll give it another go and try to come up with some intelligent thoughts.
Transcript of the McLaren radio conversation: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74159
It seems to agree with Martin Whitmarsh was saying. Although they do tell Lewis to let Trulli through, they then tell him not to.
I cannot see that the FIA have proved their charge of 'being mislead' at all.
And I still do not understand the relevance of this conversation, when they should have used the TV footage of this incident to make the judgement.
i have no audio. but to me that looked like confusion all around. just swap the paces back and be done with it. penalty seems harsh.
which penalty?
Ok - take 2.
It almost looks like Hamilton was slowing to warm his rear tyres up by doing a full throttle blat down that straight followed by warming the brakes up.
I can't say that it looks like he slowed enough to make it look like he's broken down.
What Trulli said happened, happened.
ha! the exclusion from the race. he should've been 4th.
agreed.
LOL! BBC said it could be damaging to his title hopes.
Title hopes? In that car?
hahahaha.
well Lewis did said he was hoping that they would have made improvements to the car by the Spanish GP....
and they will. but from where they are, it still won't be winning any titles.
and Massa nearly won last years Championship and he didn't score a single point in the first 2 races... it's not over yet....
But it was a fast car to begin with.
It's easier to make a fast unreliable car reliable than it is to make a slow reliable car fast.
the fact Lewis went at 15 MPH pretty much seals that he purposefully gave the position back to Trulli.
This is such a crazy situation where what happened during the race was exactly the correct outcome. All this faffing afterwards has just been such a silly confusion.
I would love to have a video with the radio in sync. For example I would like know if Lewis' He's slowed right down in front of me refers to Trulli going off or to when Trulli tried to let Lewis back passed after he was let pass.
He lied
Hamilton was slowing down on the corner before accident????
Is it just possible that Lewis was doing what he should be doing when there are marshals on the track?
Trulli seemed to make a snap judgemet to pass - not waiting to see if Lewis sped up again or not (they were not racing at this point).
Given the camera footage, and the radio transcripts, I feel that Lewis has been hard done by
it is for mclaren this year, it has been since february. today changes nothing on the wdc front.
But McLaren told him to let Trulli past?
And then told him not to while they asked Charlie Whiting...
But he already had. What Lewis was doing in that video was slowing to let Trulli through. He received the instruction and did as told.
Having watched 3 lots of footage, listened to and read radio transmissions and looked at the FIA's conclusions.
Some smells like last weeks haddock.
yeah, fair enough, it does appear that way. i just don't believe it was a deliberate attempt to deceive. especially as we're talking about one point, and it's only the first race of the season.
How do you mean? He knew what he was telling the stewards didn't happen?
Can I just say again...
...why when it was so clearly relevent, and they had gone to such lengths this season to get it...
why didn't they listen to the team radio before deciding?
It doesn't make any sense!
ok, true. but, what would be his motivation for deliberately lying to the stewards? why put himself at risk, for a single point?
he clearly didn't want the place, otherwise he would never have relinquished it.
nope. agreed.
as an aside, mclaren are using kers behind the safety car.
"I don't have to let him past I should be able to take that position back, if he made a mistake."
"Any news from Charlie whether I can take it back or not."
He did want the place.
Lets look at it the way Macca would, if they got a 25 sec penalty imposed on Toyota they would end with 6 points against 5 for Toyota. If Trulli remained in third this would give Toyota 10 points vs Macca's 5 points - double the score. There was more at stake than 1 point. I think it was too tempting for Macca not to try and and ensure that Toyota lost points because of Trulli overtaking.
What is really sad is everyone is concerned that Lewis losses points. Toyota and Trulli have been totally honest, Macca caught lying through their teeth. Whose at fault?
he knows the rule book better than the team, but the team sound paranoid about the fia:
"Yes, we understand Lewis. Let's just do it by the book. We are asking Charlie now."
lewis knows he has a right to that place, and he is correct. but i don't think that's the sound of someone willing to do anything to obtain it.
they have been honest, but trulli did fail to keep it on the island at a reduced speed.
in the end mclaren were so paranoid about punishment, they appear to err on the side of caution, preferring it seems, to lose a place.
like i said earlier, i think trulli deserved 3rd place and lewis deserved 4th.
How do you know Lewis was slowing down for the purpose of letting Trulli through?
I didn't see Lewis waving to Trulli in the footage - and Trulli did not hesitate for a second to see what Lewis was doing.
Let's not forget that they were driving trough the accident zone at the time – with the possibility of debris on the track, and Marshals on the track ahead.... If I was in Trulli’s position, I would have hung back behind Lewis for a little bit to see what was going on, and only if Lewis was coming to a halt or visibly struggling with the car would I pass.
Also – from a second look, is it me, or did Trulli himself slow down t the sort of pace Lewis was doing after he passed the scene of the accident??
they told him on the radio to do so.
if the diffuser appeal results in the exclusion of the brawn/toyota/williams, fernando winds the race?
i know it's not likely happen.
WOAH!
RSS feed gone crazy!
Just had in the region of 50 entries pop up for Sidepodcast and Sidepodcast: TV - going back quite a while.
would make for one hell of a race summary.....
I did wonder if Piquet wasn't - would have added to his braking problems if he'd forgotten to discharge.
But were the team able to see what was going on, or were they relying on Lewis' comments. Their causion was understandable.
To make it a valid overtake under yellows or safety car you only need to think they have a problem?
Opportunities to explot the rules abound there
But we do not know if Lewis obeyed.
The TV footage is not clear cut
Sorry, what I ment to say was, we do not know if Lewis slowed because of instruction, or he was just being careful through the accident zone - or maybe his average speed was too high?
Of course you do. Save fuel.
Bit pointless after the last pitstop however.
okay so let me get this straight (cause i think i'm a tiny bit confused)- Trulli went off the racing line, so Hamilton overtook him, Hamilton was unsure if it was okay for him to have done this because it was under yellow flags. When Hamilton asked the team they were unsure but said to him to let Trulli passed, so he did. Trulli confused, and not sure what was happening, slowed to let Hamilton back passed, but Hamilton did not pass, and continued in 4th for the remaining laps, all the time Mclaren were checking the situation with Charley Whiting.
After the race this incident was investigated by the stewards, and Trulli was given a 25 second penalty for overtaking under the safely car. During the stewards inquiry Hamilton neglected to tell them about the radio conversation he had had with the pit wall discussing whether or not he should have let Trulli through.
So the Stewards have disqualified Lewis for not telling them originally that the only reason Trulli overtook him under the safety car was because he let him through? which is something Lewis did not say in the original meeting on sunday? is that right?
Even Alonso has been guilty of this - when tyres get cold, long shadows etc did not improve conditions. Even Jenson said it was difficult to see where track was in the twilight and Robert is complaining. Yes it was a mistake - but few people were concerned he lost all of his points.
I still have a suspicion Macca where trying to cheat a little bit here. It has backfired somewhat.
A whole month taken away from your life in an attempt to complete 100 pages of script.
Players can join one another, the PDC is much more exciting, thrilling than the BDO
what i find most annoying is that Heikki was DQ'd too, i know he retired, but thats not the point. you can't punish one driver for what the other one did/didnt do!
its like being at a kid, when your whole class has to stay behind because of 1 stupid person
yes we do, he responded:
Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.
Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being.
LH: I let him past already.
huh?
Ive just found some footage of Hamilton passing Truli who is clearly way out on the grass...
http://vimeo.com/3908789
eh?
oh, was he not? whoopsy doodle
He was told to on the radio and then said he did.
as you may know, i'm not a fan of mclaren, or their old team principle, but in this instance i just do not see it.
you been reading gmm again?
quite possibly :/
forgive me for i have sinned :P
I didn't say he'd do anything to obtain it. I said he wanted it.
I'm confused as to why he did it as well - unless McLaren thought they could take advantage of the badly written rules in some way but got it wrong...
'It' being telling the stewards something that didn't happen...
i think lou, that sums it up rather well.
I knew you weren't a fan, I thought I detected slightly negative undertones towards McLaren and Hamilton (although Christine barely hides them!) in the podcasts etc.
Kudos to you though for backing McLaren up on this one though.
So Trulli was allowing Hamilton to get back past then? So it was unfair initially to blame Trulli because he was attempting to let him past, and Hamilton did not mention the fact that Trulli was letting him past?
Yup. Lewis had that position fair and square, McLaren didn't need to give the order to let Trulli past, and he paid the price.
He made it a lot worse by telling the stewards something that didn't happen, and I don't understand why he didn't settle for fourth.
How many teams are there in FR altogether?
Sorry, yes, there is that. But we are aging arguing symantecs.
'I let him past' does not mean that he pulled up and waved him by.
From the footage, Trulli's argument that 'Lewis slowed dramatically and left me with no choice but to pass' seems a bit over the top as well.
Damn the rule not allowing changes after the race day. I had Trulli :(
481 now.
i have no negativity for hamilton, beside objecting to the team he drives for (although i concede he acted like a charlie in 2007).
we avoid mention of the man as much as possible, in part due to itv's overzealous obsession last year, but also due to the fact it's impossible to have a sensible conversation about him, without it turning into a bitch-fest (from both sides).
much easier to discuss bourdais. anything for a peaceful life.
i'm arguing using facts.
sorry I meant all leagues together.
oh nooo, i forgot that, i would have done so much better :(
erm.. not sure... there are 25 leagues that i know of, cause they are in the top private leagues, but i assume there may be more?
On the McLaren radio he says Trulli slowed down in front of him, and the team told him to stay where he was.
On the Toyota radio Trulli was told to let Lewis past because they weren't sure if he had overtaken him under the safety car, but he didn't go past, so they assumed they were in the right.
4601 teams, according to FR.
this could be a good thing however, if Brawn GP, Toyota and Williams get done for the diffusers....i know its not likely, but whatever hte result, i keep the points :D
Thanks
If anyone is up for some good news, Gordon Murray has agreed to be interviewed for MBW...
that's great news!
forgive me for being stupid....
who?
and what?
Every time I think the stewards are getting better at their jobs I find myself mistaken.
Couldn't they just stick with the original result?
who: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Murray
what: sc's (unfinished) book
we could pretend?
to answer me's question
He said in today's pc that he didn't use KERS at the start. Don't ask me why.
ahhh, thanks.
i didnt know tthe safety car was writting a book ;)
And the link
Avoiding the first corner incident probably.
Only from McLaren's point of view, who are in damaging limitation mode and would clearly love to pick up any points, let alone challenge for wins.
Form Toyota's point of view they almost lost 6 points at a time when everything was going Toyota's way. two months ago most of you would have ranked Toyota as the fourth best car on the grid and would have predicted Toyota winning this race if I told you that Ferrari, McLaren and BMW would get no points....
I would not put it past any F1 team that when the car is clearly hopless to win a race or score points, then the next best thing you can do is reduce the amount of points your competitors can get. Forcing your number 1 oppoent (In this race Toyota) into an overshot during a safety car period is sheer genius becasue you force your enemy into a stop-and-go 10 second penalty. Due to being so close to the end of the race, 25 second was applied to Trullis time. In the rules, these 25 second penalities can not be overturned. Nor should it been, except that the stewards finally clued in that McLaren played the stewards and the FIA rules liked the hopeless morons that everyone thought the stewards were.
This explains why the investigation started after Toyota withdrew their appeal.
We know Trulli went way wide and off the course. Hamilton overtook Trulli during this mistake. Fair enough and its a pity everything did not stay that way.
Macca instruct Lewis to give position back (being paranoiac but understandable). Lewis slows and Trulli overtakes Trulli then tries to give position back by slowing and Lewis is told not to take the position. This facts are confirmed by both race transmissions from both teams.
Lewis gives an interview and says he was ordered to give the position back (we now know this to be correct).
Now look at the quote below...
In giving false testimony Lewis and Macca see Jarno and Toyota lose all their points yet they know full well Lewis was asked to give back the position - they gave false information to penalise another team. How can this not be serious?
What sort of creep continues to see another person penalised so severely based on your own false statements? During such a meeting it is reasonable to believe the driver and his manager would try and give as accurate a report as possible - obvious a little bias would come in. To blame the FIA for Lewis lying is really unfair.
I can just imagine if it was Jarno/Toyota had how the knives would be out and the guillotines readied for action.
I just hope that seeing this and then see how DeSeb tried to be honest and took the blame for his accident with Robert they decide not to impose the 10 grid position drop. DeSeb acted in good faith.
We now know Lewis will lie to see a competitor lose points and in DeSeb we see he takes the blame even if it penalises himself. As the ruling World Champion the proverbial book should be thrown at Lewis. Personally I would like to see him banned for the next two races!
I have tried to say the same thing without the detail - just you expressed it better than I did well done and I am so sure this was the Macca plan. It was potentially brilliant!
I just want to know why he did it...
Why did he want that 1 point so badly?
I agree, it's impossible to have any balanced discussion about Mr Hamilton, I got some fanboy Ferrari fans in the family that delight in diggin at him at every opportunity.
I sometimes feel quite sorry for him though, apart from Heikki I can't think of a driver that he gets on with, I get the impression all the drivers pretty much don't like him. Trulli true to form has stuck the knife in a few times regarding Lewis and I don't recall him ever saying anything positive about Lewis. Then again does Trulli ever say anything positive..
Iam probably the only one not blaiming Hamilton, McLaren, Trulli, or Toyota here. The only fault I have with the teams and drivers is that during the race they didn't ask for clarification when it happened.
The fact is that the Stewards screwed up. They should of noticed the situation and fixed it before the cars crossed the finish line. It not like the radio frequencies of the teams and drivers are encrypted anymore. Get Charlie Whitting on the radio, ask both drivers what happened, make a ruling, and stick by it. Stop this after the race protesting garbage.
Haha... Ronspeak 2.0.
For once it appears as if the stewards penalised the correct driver given the information they had. Trulli was initially punished, but after new details came to light, Hamilton and McLaren were penalised. In addition to this, we've had audio, video and text evidence released to the public.
Where the stewards got it wrong, though, was the severity of the punishments. For nothing more than a clumsy error, Trulli was dealt with too harshly at the time. And after acting in a highly unsporting manner by lying - which not only improved their own position but also unjustly harmed a competitor - Hamilton and McLaren were incredibly fortunate to be excluded from just the one race.
Lewis travelled at 15 mph and said, "I let him past". That means it was on purpose. The combination does suggest it.
Enjoy. Lovely chap.
Got a McLaren F1 drawing signed by him a few years ago. Really should get it framed.
James Allen thinks it's might go to the WMSC, if it goes expect to see McLaren banned for maybe a race or two. You know how much the FIA and crew love McLaren at the moment.
Well Hamilton would have to be the lowest of the low not to be nice to Kovi because Kovi is the one driver on the grid that is going to move out of Hamilton's way under any circumstance.....
Some places are now saying that Hamilton and/or McLaren are likely to get thrown out of the World Championship for 2009.
ahh, thanks you.
What places?
oh christ.
gmm places?
That sounds like inventing dramatic headlines to me.
As a total aside. I couldn't help but notice that McLaren's radio was much clearer than Toyotas!
I didn't realise Allen was working for the FT... I thought he was "just" a blogger nowadays. When did he get that gig?
I've heard the toyota radio but not the maclaren... do you have linkage?
Just flicking through my RSS feeds - thats popped up a couple of times.
If it does go to the WMSC as an article 151c - I can certainly see that being the punishment.
Although, other punishments recently dished out under that article are:
Exclusion from Constructors Championship and $100million fine for McLaren
Slap on the wrist and don't do it again for Renault.
apparently for years.
:D
1999.
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2009/Pages/f1_stewards_decision.aspx
I think you've really hit on something there, and in an ideal world this would be by far the best way of policing the sport.
The fact that they don't police retrospectively in football works because the punishments are a genuine deterrent. It'd be worth the risk of a driver/team trying to pull a fast one in F1, if all they were to receive was a ten place grid drop for the next race. But if there was serious risk of drivers/teams missing races, then it would act as a deterrent, without meaning that we have to go back and alter race results.
There would need to be one proviso, though, that retrospective punishments could be applied in the case of the championship being decided. It's all very well saying you'd ban someone for 18 months for taking out another driver to win the title, but that might be a punishment they'd be willing to accept, particularly close to retiring age.
I did say that this would be for an ideal world, though, and the unfortunate fact is that commercial considerations would prevent it from happening. Let's say we have a particularly bad race and three teams have to be banned, the TV companies aren't exactly going to be happy.
From James Allen: "There is all sorts of nonsense being written about the FIA World Council excluding Hamilton from the championship or banning him for a few races. This will never happen, Hamilton is F1’s biggest box office draw and even if his reputation has taken a bit of a knock, the promoters, punters and TV companies want him at the races."
http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/making-sense-of-mclarens-behaviour/
After what they got in 2007 - I can see them being taken out of the season.
Cheers Dom...
Twice!
worse case of man-flu ever?
http://www.f1minute.com/2009/04/02/ing-renault-f1-team-statement-in-sepang/
clearly not wanting to talk about a certain subject :)
Not a chance. In 2007 they were thrown out of the constructors championship but not the drivers, meaning Lewis was still there racing and making money for everyone. As James Allen says, there is no way they will completely removed from the championship. That would be like the FA banning Man U from football for a season, never going to happen.
It did happen in Italian football quite recently... I don't have many more details... But I think they banned their top two (or three) teams.
However I agree. It won't happen.
Shortest press release ever, I'd say.
he honestly can't have looked worse than Kimi did the in press conference today ;)
Not quite, I think they gave two a points penalty for the start of the season, which meant they didn't win the title that year bud there was no chance of them getting relegated, and relegated one team who were always going to get promoted again.
And that was because they had been rigging games, which is about as bad as it gets.
Juventus. They were the reigning champions of Serie A (Italian premier league) and had been rigging the matches so they had referees who would favour them. They were stripped of two titles and relegated to the lower league (Serie B) along with a couple of other teams who had been doing the same thing. Left Italian football in a mess.
Juve were relegated Fiorentina and AC Milan docked points. That was for match rigging, hardly the same thing as Hamilton
My head hurts from all this.
It all just doesn't make sense nor do I know what is fair in this situation. It is insane that we still dont know who finished third in a race that took place four days ago. Absolute insane. The FIA and their adjudication system needs reform in the worse way.
Kimi says something!!
“Again it is a late race and although it should be okay in terms of visibility, there is usually a bigger chance of rain later in the day, just at the time we should be racing,”
http://www.f1technical.net/news/12010
Everyone said exactly this numerous times last season and they still did nothing about it.
Why is it that in athletics and cycling that if you are found with traces of steroid that provides a slight performance enhancement you are banned for life and striped of your medals even if you are the Olympic champion. In F1 a World Champion can lie to give his team a huge doubling of points over a rival team with only minor punishment. Macca and Lewis knew they had deliberately disadvantaged a competitor through manufacturing the evidence. Actually if Lewis were banned for the rest of the season it would still be less severe than other sports persons get. It is the knowledge that it was done to deprive another driver of their podium and their medal that gets me. All those complaining about changing the results days after the event - remember Trulli was given third initially then with Macca's falsified evidence it was rescinded. Now rightfully it has been given back to him.
Personally I'd put lying about the details a few notches lower than steroids.
Ahhh, but what if A Hall of Famer and 7 of his teammates from Man U throws the championship after betting agsinst themselves? What would happen then...
It is not like "European Football" games can not be fixed, after all.
Good god! I think it could be raining..
http://www.itv-f1.com/photo.aspx?IM_ID=52898&PG_ID=22
I hate till shifts... evening everyone. Time to catch up on comments.
good luck ;)
evening, speak to you in a couple of hours I would imagine
http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/2009/04/some-people-are-on-the-pitchthey-think-its-all-overit-is-now-well-maybe.html
I think this post sums up very nicely why I believe that this week's events are a farce and why the FIA should try a lot harder to make sure they give us a result when the flag drops...
Evening all.
Have to say now I'm getting sick of McLaren being picked on now. That's 3 controversial incidents/scandals they've been involved in in 3 seasons. Just leave them alone and get on with the goddamn racing, for goodness sake.
But the reality is steroids etc give only minor performance advantage (but significant) to the athlete, by lying in the way Lewis did a fellow competitor lost his third place medal (sure it was rectified). By lying you can leverage a much bigger advantage (assuming you don't get caught) so can it be so lenient. Clinton lost his presidency for lying. Initially I would agree about the steroids but after thinking through it now seems worse to me.
Further it was not details lied about it was fundamental truths
Q: Did you let Trulli by?
A: No
(truth: “Yes”, as is demonstrated by Lewis on the radio “I *let him past* already” and his similar comments to Speed TV)
Q: Did the team instruct you to let Trulli by?
A: No
(truth: “Yes”; see radio: “Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now. LH: OK.)
Scott,
Choose your words carefully mate. It looks to me as if Hamilton lied to the stewards. Even I won't defend him for that :-(
I don't care if he lied. All this controversy and scandal when we've only had one race is really getting me angry. Just let them race and forget all this rubbish.
Are you honestly telling me that Jarno should still be on zero points and Lewis on six!
really?
tbh Scott i personally don't think they were being picked on in this instance.
No, I'm telling you that Trulli should be third and Hamilton fourth!
Can I still have a man-crush on Lewis if I think he's in the wrong here? ;-)
Not to break up Hamilton-Trulli-gate conversation, but my favorate part of Der Seb interview...
"Q: You replaced veteran David Coulthard at Red Bull. Can you guess how many interviews he sat through during his F1 career?
SV: He was in Formula One for 15 years, so my guess is that it is probably three times the amount of women he had - something around 30,000?
Incorrect - 55,400 (we’ve no idea about the women!)"
Then you should agree that the initial stripping of Jarno's points should not have occurred. It is after all changing the results after the race and presentations have been given!
Really. I'm just fed up with the whole thing tbh.
Surely sticking by your man is the right thing to do :)
you can't abandon him in his hour of need!
Maybe there is a simple answer here. Maybe we should go back to the lack of transparency we had years ago.
After the race Bernie goes and has a word with them, sorts it out. In this case nothing would happen. If the order needed reversing Bernie would make them promise to swap the order the next time they raced.
Stand by your LewHam!
:D
Right now I feel like Hilary Clinton :-(
Please sing that for us!
:)
(Insert Brokeback Mountain joke here.)
To be honest I wished it had stayed there as well and none of this nonsense got exposed. If the other drivers had previously disliked Lewis it must be worse now as Jarno is fairly popular.
Sometimes its hard to be a Gavin
Giving all your love to just LewHam
You'll have bad times
And he'll have good times
FIA doing things that you don't understand
But if you support him you'll forgive him
Even though he's hard to understand
And if you love him
Oh be proud of him
'Cause after all he's just LewHam
Stand by LewHam
Give him two WDC to cling to
And something warm to come to
When nights are cold and lonely
Stand by your man
And tell the world you love him
Keep giving all the love you can
Stand by LewHam
Stand by LewHam
And show the world you love him
Keep giving all the love you can
Stand by your man
I think I agree less stressful!
Whoops I left a couple of Man's in there...
Why the hell is this guy not signed with a record label?
I now have people in my office staring at me because I just fell of my chair laughing.
:D :D :D
Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please sing that and send it to Christine!!!!
Tell me about it mate!
:D
ah please giggles! :D it would be awesome!
Blimey, I just remembered its free practice 1 and 2 tomorrow.
Who here can play the slide guitar?
rcc.
I can hum.
Hush now. I'm not ready.
ahaha :D
So if Sidepodcast starts a country western band, what is it' name?
The Rockin' Casters?
That song is brilliant :D
Don't say I don't do nuffink for you
http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/giggles-does-stand-by-lewham-mp3
I wish I could sing!
I'm listening to that now.
lmao! :D
genius!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!
!
:D
We love you!!
:D :D :D
You really can't.
But thats bloody brilliant
hahahahaha XD that's awesome!!! that's just awesome!!!! hahaha :D
The World Driver's Championships bit is my favourite.
better than the kimi bit?
Gotta be the high note. :D
If my laptop was working, I would have sung it! :(
You've made my evening! Thank you!
It's all a classic.
I hope Timo isn't reading, I don't want to give him ideas.
You gouys should totally do a SidePodFactor evening one night to determine sidepodcasts best singer or SidePodIdol!
Except this would be actually good and worth checking out rather than whats on tv ;)
Haha, I love it.
If Tammy Wynette was alive today, I think she would be on the phone with you right now to do a duet.
Amazing... absolutely amazing. Now we need to shoot the video of you singing, staring off into the distance as the background is a montage of Lewis Hamilton and Gavin photos.
Aw thanks guys!
My favourite bit is the sudden noise near the end where I clearly think I've pressed the stop button but haven't!
Singing when I'm this full of cold is never going to be too good a sound, but on the other hand if I wasn't this full of Lemsip I might not have thought it was such a good idea.
:D
:)
Some thing for a parade lap?
And with that statement you have made the best argument I have ever heard to get rid of capitial punishment, I now have been forced to change my views 180 degress on this subject because, obviously, the jury can not be trusted.....
That's the sidepodcomunity. We can all have a good time getting all nice and wound up about the FIA and everything and then at the end of it we all stop and have a nice singsong :)
:D hehe
i'll do a mime.
It's like Monty Python's Life of Brian, but with F1 cars!
He's not the Messiah - he's a very naughty driver!
Hmm... we could do that? :D
speaking of which... RG how is that script coming along ;)
Well, we already are having an argument....
"rings bell" Sorry, times up!
Considering I'm 2 days in the month from hell (aka Script Frenzy) doing a completley different script which I really should have started yesterday, but mweh.
http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/making-sense-of-mclarens-behaviour/
Sensible argument from JA there.
Oh god I can't stop laughing after listening to giggles rendition of stand by Lewham. Absolutely brilliant :D :D :D :D :D that's just made my day, thanks Alex
I love this page on the Wiki that Jackie made. I must have missed this conversation when it happened :)
http://wiki.sidepodcast.com/page/The+seven+stages+of+a+sidepod+addiction
Oops, wrong thread. Better move it before Mr C sees.
Ah, safe and sound on the good ol' daily thread.
[Gasps]
But I love it. Class
I managed stage 2, 3, 4 and 5 in one week!
So... have we ever come to a conclusion about how to pronounce Petronas?
Always said it Pet-roh-nas personally
Wasn't that Petrobas?
I assume Pet-Row-Brass
i'm loving stage 7, i wonder if ollie has noticed it yet :D and do i fail stage 6?... cause i didn't really volunteer to host the panel....i was pushed.. :D
To which I pronounce the wrong one, what Lukeh said
Petronas: Malaysian oil concern: Pet roh nass
Petrobras: Brazilian oil concern: Petro brass
Ah, ok. I should change the question then.
How do I pronounce Petronas?
:)
That'll do me. Thanks all :)
I am stage 7, albeit I did half of it, yet to be filmed, thankfully
I think I got Petrobras' pronunciation wrong but that's how I say it on the rare occasions that I do at all.
It might be: Peh troh nass
I think it was after wondering how to say Credit Suisse
I'm stage 4 but you can probably move me up a notch for paying 40 or 50 quid just to go to London to meet a bunch of ya.
A very timely "SPC for Dummies" - I'll track my progress though the season. Looks more entertaining than the Six Hats, Seven Habits or Twelve Steps for sure...
That's where I was going to draw the line, so instead I'm only spending 12.50 but I have to spend hours on a smelly coach.
Thats were I am drawing the line, instead of £12.50 I'm spending nowt and relaxing at home whilst commenting to myself
If I book it soon I should be able to get it cheaper. I don't mind though, I like going to London and I like meeting random F1 fans from the internet. I've done it before.
Technically I'm flying from abroad to meet you all - sorta ;-)
Oh yea, I remember!
i'd pop into the comments while i'm in london to keep you company but i am yet to work out how to get on public wifi with my ipod touch. lol
Hmmm, wonder if I will have an iPhone by then....
Good news
You sort me out a publishing contract and you are on
Evening Steven :-)
OK I was going to read all the comments before I commented on this issue but I have had more than enough. How can the FIA let someone who through his car off the road under yeelow flags keep his place? Forget everything else this is the one serious issue in the whole thing.
Why are the stewards the only people in the planet who didn't know the team had told Lewis to give the placce back? I knew. It was on the television.
Why did he tell them they didn't though?
Just reading BBC news, this is amongst the measures the G20 have come up with to tackle the global financial crisis:
"There will also be sanctions against secretive tax havens and tougher global financial regulation."
Anyone else's first thought a certain Mr Hamilton? :D
I just had a thought. Does this stewards decision affect Christine's Fantasy Racers lead?
no
Exactly. It makes him look very underhanded and dishonest :-(
apparently not. I'm sure Christine's had a word somewhere... ;)
Fantasy Racers points will remain unchanged, apparently ...
I smell conspiracy.
As if I have that kind of power!!
clip?
Steven, it's like you're on SidePodDelay... he declined the offer.
hehe :D
It is a bit unrealistic to think that there was no way Trulli could give the place back during the period behind the safety car. Why didn't Toyota contact the FIA during the race to say they wanted to give the position back but Hamilton wouldn't take it.
Or is that just what you want us to think? ;)
Have I missed the transcribe of the conversation between the Stewards and Hamiton/ Ryan ? I cant seem to find it anywhere ..
Its easy for the FIA to playback the drivers radio, but that is only half of the story here..Looks like the drivers can be accountable, but not the stewards who are reserved a god-like status despite their bungeling.....
Btw, what's happened to the race video edits on F1.com? Have they stopped doing them?
We saw one shot of them during the last race, what more do you want.......
Had it not been for the last line in that report, it'd be time for some more Alonso to Ferrari rumours: http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/12063/900/ (GMM warning)
FIA just annoys me, why are the punishments so damn harsh. This has ruined my day... along with EastEnders.
:-)
James Allen is convinced he has already signed for next season...
:D
I love that line
:D
What happened in Eastenders then?
Has something bad happened? Or is it just the show upsetting you?
it was a sad episode....
I'm gonna upload pics of my Brawn F3 car on Grid in a minute.
*cough* or so i've been told.....
Peggy Mitchell was disqualified in a race around Albert Square due to the fact she'd not given everyone the free booze she promised from the Queen Vic.
:D
I don't know if that's meant to be a joke or not... :?
Nah... It's not depressing enough for Eastenders. ;) I prefer it over any of the other soaps and I watch it here and there but that's not saying much, the others are shocking...
Emmerdale... yeesh.
haha personally i wouldn't know *cough* however my sources say that, that was not in the episode, but may be an out take ;)
Oi, Coronation Street used to be awesome with Richard Hillman. It has a Scottish killer guy at the moment, he's cool.
I used to watch it a while back but managed to stop myself. They can be horribly addictive...
I just find them horrible.
But it is odd when you do find yourself watching them, you dont rush for the remote. Unless its Hollyoaks of course.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5210/dsc00362e.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3862/dsc00363v.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8763/dsc00366j.jpg
Eastenders and Coronation street only exist to make manic depressives feel good about their lives.
new show:
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2009/04/02/f1-digest-2009-malaysia-preview/
Fascinating. Good night all!
Agreed.
Better off with shows that have 6-10 episodes a series. Much higher quality, and leaving you wanting more.
To be fair American shows do a good job with 20 shows a series/season. The Office US for example is an incredible show and never tires out despite so many episodes a season. :D
Nice. I really need to get that game again. I got Race Pro today which is good, but no customisation unfortunately. Also, the Formula BMW cars have some serious aero issues, more than once I have hit a kerb and flipped one over.
:D
Night Gavin.
As does 30 Rock, the best American comedy on TV.
I've got fed up of race pro now, it's all about Grid personally this gen of games so far. I'm still laughing at that clip I posted earlier of my Barrichello shunt
I don't tend to watch many American shows, but agreed.
The yellow doesn't suit unfortunately. Neither does the green but I think it's better than the yellow.
Ooh, I missed that. Link?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWYHjyCO0Ts
The video title speaks for itself
Hahaha! Smoooooooooth!
genius...pure.genius
I love the crashes on GRID, I've had some awesome ones through Eau Rouge.
Anyways, heading off laptop now...
I'll see whoevers gonna be around for FP1 and 2 later in a few hours :)
Bye Lukeh
I'm not at work until midday so I think I'm gonna stay up.
The times I've gone down Eau Rouge have been a little...
...interesting...
I'm not sure what to do. I want to watch both, but if I go to sleep I'm not gonna wake up in time...
aww, where going to be here all night/morning.
Oh yes, I know. :)
Speak for yourself!!
set some alarms so that you get up?
i am thinking i should try and get some sleep before FP1 and then stay up after....cause i need to get some sleep... i'm helping a friend with her psychology revision tomorrow so i need to be awake...but i'm currently still doing some work.... what to do... what to do.
lou's contemplating Jenson time? wow.
lol i'll still watch practice... it's just where to fit the sleep in ;) not sure i can do a day of psychology revision without sleep... but i need to get this ict report done :s
Actually, in Hungary 2007, McLaren lost their constructors points because they were deemed to have mislead the stewards after Alonso held up Lewis in the pits {Comment #311}
I thought that was for Alonso deliberately impeding Hamilton? The whole affair about who said (or didn't say) what simply made the stewards madder; they couldn't penalise McLaren for being misleading per se because no such rule existed. And it still doesn't. So they made the driver impediment penalty (which is in the rule book) harsher than they would have done otherwise.
But this time they don't have anything else to use as a cover for their revenge for being confused/misled/deceived (delete as appropriate). So they shouldn't have penalised Hamilton because there was nothing in the rulebook giving them that latitude and precedent was against them (lots of people have told rubbish to the stewards and none of them ever got penalised for it specifically).
Whether such a rule should specifically exist is another question.
I went to sleep at ten, set three alarms, and still didn't get up for FP3 or Qualifying in Australia.
Not sure I'm gonna be awake enough for FP1 if I don't get some sleep though...
erm... well it's 10:30 now... so you do have a bit of time to get some sleep ;)
My local news site headline: “Hamilton stripped of title” {Comment #379}
I take it they've never heard of the rule whereby once the World Council confirm the results of the year's racing in December, that it cannot be modified unless the WMSC have put an injunction in that a specific element of a specific series otherwise?
Mind you, someone told Dad that the diffusers got declared illegal this morning. He was very relieved to discover they weren't, especially since I think he's become a Brawn GP fan...
On the seven stages of indoctrination to SPC I notice there isn't an entry for compose and upload a song.
Of course that is only my strange angle on proceedings!
Stage 7.5?
McLaren may have believed that according to the rules they could not overtake Trulli and therefore told Lewis to pass him. They may have expected the FIA to give Trulli a drive through or something.
:)
Although it may be my version of 7 as I don't think i've been on Sidepodfilm yet!
And I still do not understand the relevance of this conversation, when they should have used the TV footage of this incident to make the judgement. {Comment #385}
The FIA probably have the means to correlate the audio and video because not only do parts of it key into specific moments of the race, but the radio streams the FOM will have access to (for deciding what bits to broadcast) will be linked to video in case of replays. The FIA probably decided that there were enough clues in the transcript to not require the video to be aligned by them.
And the McLaren thing seems like a full-blown argument rather than an order or a calm discussion. After the hassles of 2007, neither Lewis nor Martin was ever going to admit that there'd been the level of dissension implied in the transcript, but how can an instruction modified at the response of the person meant to carry it out be defined as an order?
This looks like communication failure between McLaren and the FIA. A lousy reason for someone to be disqualified.
Don't know
Why would McLaren have any malevolence to Toyota? McLaren is interested in McLaren getting a result and if they thought that they could keep Trulli in 4th they would have done because they know that if they can sort their car out fast enough to challenge for the championship they know Toyota won't be a threat. There is no reason for McLaren to try to drop Toyota in it.
Trulli sailed straight past him. I can't see Hamilton did anything unusual in the incident where Trulli made his pass.
I think the interesting point about the whole thing is that both teams are asking Charlie for an opinion and Charlie ain't talking. Had Charlie given an answer there would be no problem now.
The teams were told not to involve Charlie after the Spa thing last year.
As he's race director he has no say in these things, but he has to pass things over to the stewards to investigate later.
Eh? How does that work?
Not sure Charlies word is always completely reliable, but thats what they gotta do i guess
Charlie's attention may have been elsewhere, say Vettel.
There do need to be clear rules on what should happen.
That's crazy though. As he's race director it should be his decision.
Is Charlie's opinion actually the law? Everyone seemed to be asking him about the diffusers but does he actually have the authority to say that they are definitely legal?
Clinton lost his presidency for lying. {Comment #519}
Clinton did not lose his presidency for lying; he completed the maximum two terms permitted in US constitutional law. He had to do some serious apologising to avoid impeachment proceedings gaining traction, but in the end all he lost was a few percentage points in the opinion polls and his pride.
There are two reasons why Hamilton should not have been disqualified. Firstly, the thing that the FIA are claiming was an order to let Trulli through was an argument. Simply because Lewis lost the argument does not make the exchange an order. Secondly, there is nothing in the rule book that allows the FIA to disqualify Lewis, even if he'd tried telling them that he overtook Jarno to avoid a giant bowl of custard on track.
Lots of other drivers had told a less-than-truthful account of incidents to stewards over the years and the only punishment I've heard of relating to testimony given to stewards is Scott Speed getting a $5000 fine. That was for swearing, not for the factual content or lack of same in the statement.
That should be an interesting read
Someone arguing before complying with an order somehow stops it from being an order?
It's not the law, but he's well informed and has the knoledwge, so his words are good advices. But, at the end, 'the law' are the stewards and the WMSC
thought as much.
oh no, i've just realised i haven't listened to all the team podcasts from australia yet....
Steroids can give a massive performance advantage. Look at pictures of some of the people who have been convicted 4 years before they started taking them and at the time they were convicted. Some of them weigh massively more
:D :D :D
still catching up with the comments Steven ;)
I'm gonna go now, I'll try get up for Practice 2.
The conversation happened some time during the Australian GP weekend.
Evening Gavin. Took me a while to work through the comments due to phone callls etc
I'm near stage 4, cool :-)
BTW, there is a non-browser version of the doohickey?!?!
there is a desktop version, but someone else will have ot link you as i dont know where it is
So if I get the Lewis/Jarno thing right. Trulli left the circuit and Hamilton took the position then gave it back. Both teams got on to Charlie to ask for an opinion which means neither of them knew what the correct situation was. Charlie is therefore aware that there is a problem but doesn't get involved.
The stewards in Australia have access to the ECUs of both cars so they should have the information about who slowed when before their meeting. They have access to all radio transmissions so they should have known who said what.
Despite all that they got it wrong and it has now been sorted. The only person who gained as a result is the driver who threw his car off the road under yeelow flags which is a serious breach of safety rules. The stewards re-convened in Malaysia to argue who said what at the previous stewards meeting but not to investigate the serious safety breach.
This is insane.
http://www.sidepodcast.com/desktop/sidepodcastdesktop.air
You need to download Adobe Air first though
http://get.adobe.com/air/
okay i think i may go try and get some sleep... 3 hours is better than none i suppose... i'll finish work later... i hope i get up in time.... hopefully speak to you all later! x
Good night (1)
night....
if i were a betting man i'd say you wont get up :P sleep is just too good at that time of the morning
what's the (1) for?
hmm... i'll be up... i may be confused... but i will... anyway night.
If you sleep between the two session that will be good night (2) and if you sleep after FP2 that will be good night (3)
night.
Thanks! It won't run in my machine at home, though (too old). Maybe at the office ;-)
Not Auto-sensing then? I'm suprised as most modern network hardware is, so crossover cables aren't needed.
If only - this is hand me down kit. Nice high quality netgear stuff - but it's next to useless for businesses now.
The switch I have between my router and my firewall and kit on the DMZ is a cheapass maplins job - that works perfectly. :D
I know networky guy who used to make 10cm male-female crossover cat5 extension leads to get himself (and his friends) out of any such holes.... Although if your switches are modern enough to be gigabit I'm surprised they cant sort it out for you
Thats all I did in the end.
This is true, it seems the real reason for McClaren being penalised is the obvious difference between what the stewards were told and what Hamilton subsequently told the press.
Had Hamilton not slowed down to let Trulli back, he would have been fine, but the team told him to let Trulli past, even though Hamilton had told them Trulli had gone off the track.
Obviously I meant McLaren - I'm tired.
My PC keeps locking. No blue screens, just completely locking. Think it might be overheating.
Check the CPU fan.
Seems to be better since I took the side of the case off. Oddly one of the HDDs powered down whenever it froze so I thought that could be a cause, not sure if that is symptom or cause.
Will leave it for now and test tomorrow.
When did this become sidepodcomputersupport? :)
Every F1 group also acts as computer support, everyone knows that :-)
Hehe. "Have you tried turning it off and on again?"
I'm in support mode as I'm fixing a friend's website database which was full of old stuff that is no longer needed ahd had filled the disk space available.
Hopefully it'll work tomorrow evening. I'm undecided over whether I'll watch Malaysia practice (which I'm not watching live) or Australia GP replay.
Non-F1 plug (but somehow related :-) ): Oracle BMW wins legal battle over Alinghi. They are the 'Challenger of the Record' for the 33rd America's Cup (http://moourl.com/7dtut).
Mmmmmm.... massive catamarans match race.... it will worth watching
Hi All
Just a quick comment before grabbing some sleep before FP1, the real sad thing about this huge Hamilton-Trulli mess is that Hamilton will still keep his 148 points in Fantasy Racers even though he has now be disqualified , and my driver Trulli will have to make do with 67 point for finishing 3rd, and as we all know the Fantasy Racers results are far more important than the FIA's, who care's if McLaren beats Ferrari want I'm interested in is will SPC beat AutoSport in the FR League table.
Hopefully see you all again at 3ish, if not I'll be back at 7ish
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=45425
Alan Donnelly is going to meet Sebastian Vettel to discuss the rationale for his 10 place grid penalty. Three thoughts spring to mind. Shouldn't they have done that in Australia. Has this ever happened before? Why do they feel that there is a need to to do this when no-one has appealed?
It looks like the stewards realise that they screwed up but are not prepared to overturn the decision. Very odd.
a) yes
b) new one on me
c) very, very good point
I saw in Autosport today that Petter Solberg had a run in a Ferrari at Firano last week.
any ferrari, or an f1 ferrari?
F1 car
wow. surprised they haven't made a bigger deal about that. what's the connection?
None that I know of. He is famous as a Subaru driver which is not related to the FIAT group. Seems odd to run him and not get the publicity they did from Rossi's first test.
Brawn - what might have been
Achilleas Kallakis the shipping magnate who tried to buy Honda is under investigation by the Serious Fraud Office over a property fraud of $80 million.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21324.html
The same site is also carrying a story that Virgin are paying Brawn $30 million for the whole car and that they will be able to re-sell sponsorship. At that price Branson could be able to make a profit. I am not brave enough to risk two urls.
i would do the same... if i had 30m.
in doohickey? risk away. otherwise, good choice :)
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21348.html
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21324.html
From the desktop doohickey
It works
:)
good morning :)
Yay!
good night! :-)
:D
Good morning all.
Did Ross tell you any secrets this week Christine?
Ouch... thank goodness he didn't get Honda then. Although I'm still awaiting an official investigtion into the serious misuse of beards from Branson.
she hasn't slept yet :)
WOW!
shine on you crazy diamond. aren't you feeling comfortably numb yet?
sorry... 3 hour sleep + pink floyd dream...
she's editing an aside with joe, malaysia edition.
(unless anyone comes up with a better name)
I know. Aren't I good? :)
I am impressed.
Joe must love the feedback to do this many interviews.
Just reading up on Steven's links, we're pretty much expecting Brawn t stay Brawn in 2009 and then become Virgin-Brawn in 2010 onwards? Or perhaps Virgin GP with Brawn at the helm?
That's not a bad deal imo. It'll take time getting used to such a name but the team should have a future with serious financial backup albeit with the bearded vlunder of the world prancing about the paddock, but us Honda fans have had nick fry to listen to, so he can't be that bad... surely.
me too. should be up after fp1.
hope so. tis a good reminder to use how useful feedback can be too.
free practice thread here:
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2009/04/03/live-malaysia-free-practice-1/
You can now get skype on an iphone
that's why i mentioned it :)
and on an ipod touch as well apparently.
You just need a handsfree headset apparently
I have Skype on my iPhone... But you do have to be in WiFi range to use it.
I am finally back. With no F1 Racing :(
So much for my practice session.
I am heading out again at 4:30 so I will let you know how my search continues.
awww. was much fun following though.
i'll be here!
That, genuinely, is the main thing :)
Just think how embarassing you could make it. :D
News of the World
Ann Summers
Suzuki *just to rub Honda's nose in it*