We were out and about yesterday, and missed out on any news that might have been happening. Thankfully, though, it looks like all was quiet on the F1 front. A1 GP seems to have got it's fair share of comments yesterday, and here's what else was going on:
- Jolly from Pitlane Fanatic posted an F1 style Spot the Difference game. The answers are listed in yesterday's thread, so if you haven't had a go yet, let us know how you get on before you peek.
- The Guardian has news that Martin Whitmarsh thinks Lewis is "phenomenal." Hardly surprising, obviously, but he thinks he could rival Schumacher in terms of success and records. Can't really believe anyone would want that, really, super-domination by one person isn't great viewing.
- Don't forget we're debuting Sidepodchat tonight. It's simple, a few people on a Skype call, discussing F1 stuff. Head over to the Wiki if you haven't signed up yet. If you don't feel like talking today, you can stick around in the comments, as will be pitting your questions to participants as well.
Stick around as there's plenty to talk about - don't feel limited by the above. We're pretty well caught up on sleep now, so I'll see you in the comments.
Morning all, still half asleep and I have a match in 1 and a half hours. Oh joy.
Morning all (just about)
What time is sidepodchat ish? It will depend on when it is as to whether I can attend.
Ah I have just seen the 7pm in the other thread. Thanks :)
Hi all,
what's the format for tonight? Are we bringing our own subjects along, and are we going to all discuss each person's subject or something?
I liked Jolly's (possibly accidental) suggestion that we should call Me. "The Me" like "The Stig".
I think the commenters start the topics? Not sure though...
I'm not sure if it's been decided. It seemed to be that the commenters came up with topics / questions for the chat. But yeah I think it was to be decided.
ah what Dom said :)
Cool, I thought so. I have a few for F1, and possibly one or two about A1GP/GP2/Superleague 'Formula'
Oh god, don't tell me I have to bring my brain AND a topic to discuss :P
No, just the topics. A brain is not required ;-)
Just as well then ;)
Super License Causes Further Controversy - BlogF1
I still can't see where the problem is. Yes, the prices have increased, but I can't see any of those drivers not being able to afford their fees - but don't they get paid millions from the teams and then get sponsorship money as well?
The drivers are arguing about it the wrong way - they should be demanding that the FIA provide a breakdown of costs and a justification for a fee rise rather than just opposing the rise. I for one would love to see where and how the FIA spends it's safety money - as Steven Roy pointed out, how can Max be a safety champion and let Renault test a car that hasn't passed the mandatory crash tests???
Giltrap saves Taupo A1 GP round
Wow... I didn't know it came that close!
For those who don't know, Colin Giltrap runs a successful dealership in NZ, funds the A1GP team and helps NZ drivers like Scott Dixon, Jonny Reid, Matt Halliday, Earl Bamber and Chris Van der Drift to make it overseas...
Williams: Cost-cutting rules saved team
Seems like Williams have been getting a lot of help to stay in business lately.
Which begs the question - Somebody high up at Honda must have made the decision to pull out of F1 long before they did - so why didn't they approach Bernie and try and get help selling the team? Bernie seems to want to help the teams stay in F1, he's helped Williams out, so surely he would have helped find a buyer for Honda to keep the team running 'seamlessly' rather than suspending the operations...
If I recall correctly, Jaguar pulled out of F1 in a very similar fashion and I think Bernie was instrumental in getting Red Bull on board to buy the team...
A Superlicence fee was originally supposed to be paying for just the cost of administering the licence. The reason why it wasn't as cheap as other licences even before last year was that the criteria for it are more complex (it is, for example, the only level of licence where it is possible to attain a licence due to subjective judgement of a panel of people). Even if most of the applicants were eligible for an automatic renewal because they'd completed the previous season in F1 without being considered officially incompetent, the cost of getting 26 people to Paris to debate the few borderline cases each year is considerable. While the service was charged somewhat above its likely average cost, people were OK with that because the FIA has the right to cover the other costs it has through the combination of its items of income. Also, the price was low enough that even pay-drivers who received no salary from teams could generally meet the cost without having to ask their sponsors or teams particularly nicely. Drivers contributed to safety through the GPDA if they wished to join that organisation (and most did).
Or at least that was the case until last year, when the FIA put a giant increase on the price. Instead of charging €1725 plus €463 per point, the FIA suddenly charged €10000 plus € per point. Plainly the money was being repurposed. Originally the FIA said that it was to discourage egregious licence applications from people who plainly weren't ready for a superlicence, but it quickly emerged that safety was the primary reason. Nothing wrong with that - except that there was already a mechanism for drivers to financially contribute to safety. The GPDA cost €1000 to join plus $200 per point in 2008, assuming drivers didn't make additional donations to its work...
The GPDA, which had sixteen F1 race members as well as some testers by the time the issue boiled over prior to Silverstone, didn't like this one bit. However, they didn't have any effective protest mechanism by the time they agreed a position because their words were ignored, payment could not be witheld (since the licences had been paid for prior to the agreement on position) and some drivers were ideologically opposed to strikes or other similar industrial action on a matter of this type.
I think the main reason for the change was that neither Raikkonen nor Hamilton (two of the four drivers with the highest wages) were part of the GPDA, so the FIA missed out on a large proportion of the contribution it might otherwise have received. Fellow high-earner Massa leaving the GPDA a few months later would, in the FIA's eyes, have simply vindicated the decision.
I don't think the protest at heart is so much at the cost as the methodology. After all, most of the drivers already were paying a significant sum for GPDA membership and if I understood correctly, the FIA received a portion of this to assist in specific projects (such as the improved testing safety arrangements, as from mid-2006). I'm not sure whether the GPDA provides a day-to-day contribution as well, but it is possible. Also, there are a handful of drivers who are not getting millions from their salaries. Luckily the ones on low incomes had either been in the sport long enough to not be financially threatened by the increase or had a good strong sponsor or team willing to cover the increase (apart from Lewis, who had to renegotiate his salary and ended up with a giant amount because his value had ballooned over the previous 12 months, Nakajima fits the latter category and Piquet Jr. might have done as well).
I think a better system would be to have a flat-rate superlicence of the base 2007 price plus inflation and a separate payment to enter each F1 race. Most grassroots series have race entry fees and I see no reason why F1 could not be the same. In fact, F1 already does have race entry fees - teams must pay €300,000 euro a season (on the assumption that a team will enter all races in the season in question). Simply bill each driver a separate entry fee of a low enough amount ti encourages the safety-enthusiasts among the drivers to contribute extra through the GPDA (but high enough so that everyone feels they've made an investment into the safety systems) and the whole impasse could be resolved without the FIA losing a single penny of income. If a team wishes to pay a driver's entry fee for them, that should not pose a problem.
Listening to the drivers more (whether they are affiliated with the GPDA or not) would also be beneficial. Maybe even providing reasonably well-promoted training to help drivers understand those concerns that the likes of Max feels they are insufficiently aware of when they complain about this corner or that device being unsafe.
I'm curious as to what Sidepodchat will bring. Sounds like a great idea :)
If anyone sees Lou, please tell her she still has to do her runs before quali...
Oh, and so does half of the field :D :-P
Is there a gathering I've missed??
Unless you mean Alan Craig's after-test party in the RLB, I'm not aware of any gatherings going on.
There is a problem with your solution - it implies simplicity, common sense and compromise. Sadly, these things are conspicuously absent in F1 and especially when it comes to negotiations with Bernie/Max...
Will do them asap ;)
No, I was just wondering why only 11 people have done their runs so far :)
You're the best :)
There is a problem with your solution - it implies simplicity, common sense and compromise {Gavin Brown - 2 comments ago}
I see. That could be a rather large sticking point.
By the way, I like your way of paraphrasing my rather lengthy previous comment :)
No, I was just wondering why only 11 people have done their runs so far {Alenyaa - 3 comments ago}
I wouldn't know the answer to that one...
It was too long to quote without missing something vital, and I didn't want to appear to be picking at parts of it - rather respond to the whole thing :-)
Fair enough :)
another that needs no introduction:
http://sidepodcast.wetpaint.com/page/Embarassing+Entrances
Afternoon all, still in a state of shock in how we didn't win my game.
Yay, lets all moan about Superleague 'Formula'!
Haha. I've created a sidepodtour page as well, very basic at the moment, didn't know what you really want
ahh, nice one. that needs pluggin too:
http://sidepodcast.wetpaint.com/page/Sidepodtour
Hehe. I usually fall asleep, sometimes in the front row...
I'm interested to join the panel if I'm awake. What time will the show be? :D
7pm sharp sir.
I have a 50-50 shot then. :D We shall see. :)
Have you not heard of Red Bull?
Been moderated :-(
gorgeous stuff that.
I might have a go on the panel, depends if I feel up for it. :)
I am live commenting from trafalgar square where it is a bit damp and urgh.
Although I can comment I can't really wetpaint. But I can exclusively reveal that I have permission to be on sidepodchat this evening as long as you'd still like to have me.
I shall wetpaint for you :)
not a panel buddy. a chat, a conversation or a discussion.
no points for mentioning bourdais today ;)
Journeyer called it a panel too. Must try and make our shows more distinctive :)
What the drivers can afford should not affect the cost of the license. If that was the case why were the costs not put up when Schumacher was racing. He has earned more from F1 than any driver in history.
Look at the fees each drivers pay on Ollie's site. Button is the fourth highest paid driver in F1 but he only pays 5 % of what the top drivers pay.
Where do you stop with license fees. The top guys could aford to pay $5 million a year but that would be no fairer than the current system. Bear in mind that this year Max is using safety as an excuse. The only reason he is using that was because everyone laughed at his original suggestion last year when there was a big hike in costs. The fact was that the reason he gave for that increase was so insane a 5 year old could have disproved the logic. Now that has be shown to be a total lie he has gone to his old standby safety. There is no justification for charging more than a nominal fee for a license. The only cost to the FIA is for the simple clerical exercise to find out if a driver is eligible or not.
Well I was feeling generous and did it before ya.
Whatever it is, I'll decide later.
Wonderful, thank you.
we have branding issues.
Ali,
In all categories of racing the entrant pays an entry fee. In the higher reached the entrant is the team. In the lower reached it is the driver. There is no category of racing where a driver and an entrant separately pay entry fees.
It's all these Sidepodnouns, gets very confusing.
Maybe have a more snazzy title, 'Formula Talk' 'An Evening with the Sidepodcast-ians', 'The Sidepodcast Show' 'Formula Focus' please tell me to stop before I continue.
Well, panel and chat are... synonymous. You might want a more... differentiating word.
Stop. :P
in that case, carry on r.g. :)
Chat
Synonyms: babble, bull session, chatter, conversation, converse, gab*, gas*, gossip, heart-to-heart, hot air*, jabber*, palaver, prattle*, rap*, rap session, tête-à-tête, visit, yak*
What aboit Franck?
Okay
Okay. 'Fighting Formula Talk' 'Inside the cockpit' 'Rear Wing Camera' okay I'm running out now
How about using "Talk-In".... or "Chat-In"...
Wait, 'Your on Sidepodcast'
With me joining in tonight I would say we should call it Sidepodbabble or Sidepodjabber or Sidepodprattle...
nope.
Sidepodwaffle?
ROFL my waffle :P
Not "An evening in with Goat" then?....
Or "Goat and "me" butt heads"....
Having just re-read Ollie's post on supe license costs on thing struck me. The total intake from license fees is 1.7 million Euro. Since we have 16-19 races per season depending how badly Bernie has screwed up that equates to 100k Euro per race. How much safer can F1 be made for 100K Euro? My guess would be not any safer at all.
http://blogf1.co.uk/2009/01/24/super-license-causes-further-controversy/
I wonder how many drivers have a contract that stipulates the team paying the licence fee?...
Bleating with the Goat?
Depending how it goes it could turn into sidepodwhinge
BAT racer qualifying results in one minute. I wonder how I have managed to screw up this time.
Would that not be covered by 'Legal Costs' or 'Insurance'?
You didn't! You got pole! :D
WOOHOO! It's payback time. Fastest in all three sessions. Based on previous experince that probably means losing 4 places at the start.
well done steven :)
Oh for the love of god.
My favourite bit was when it describes lou's q2
Well done steven
Thanks Lou. Looks like you got the best comment ever. Excellent Lap ! Incredible Lap !
My warmup runs are done.
Gotta remember, she is in a Honda :P
Veery pleased with that quali, another strong 5th.
:D hehe lol it's really surprising seeing as apparently our perfect set up is 2 points beyond the car's capabilities. also, i've just checked the constructors championship and Honda are 3rd :D
:D
There is no category of racing where a driver and an entrant separately pay entry fees. {Steven Roy}
You make a good point. It would be a unique method of doing things. However, the FIA has already had trouble convincing the teams to pay extra for trackside equipment (I'm not sure if he ever succeeded). The only way he can force the teams to pay extra before 2013 is to get the clause into a newly-agreed Concorde Agreement.
The circuits could sensibly pay for some of it but Bernie charges them so much money that an extra payment to the FIA would be impossible.
Bernie could pay out of the profits he makes from the circuits, but he refuses to play fair with anyone when it comes to money, even a friend.
If the teams will not pay and the FIA cannot pay (I know it has $50m this year but will it next year or the year after?), then someone else must. At the moment, the drivers may be the only ones who can pay without a contract being broken or the one being charged having their ability/willingness to participate being seriously compromised. If the only way it can be brought in on a compulsory basis is an entry fee, then separate entry fees may have to be introduced. It's not ideal from a structural point of view, but see Gavin Brown for why a structually ideal solution is unlikely ever to be introduced into F1.
I keep crashing in Q2!
Grrr...
Kamalsky out-qualified me - that's pretty unusual. He must be improving...
Yaaay! First podium on my public game! :D
Well done Roy and Lou! Shame Lou couldn't replicate it in Q3 though!
I'm counting on it ;)
Oooh it's getting dark out there it's probably time to think about heading home for the sidepodchat... If the name hasn't changed by the time I get there :)
It's been dark for two hours here :-)
I'm currently beginning an observational drawing of the TF109. It's very early days, but so far it looks good, even if the back end looks a bit shorter than it should be.
What do you mean by an 'Observational Drawing'?
I think its a drawing based on an image.
So he is copying it or at least trying to copy the image?
Yup, I've got one from autosport at X3 to help
Front view, side view?
At an angle.
Oooh the most difficult angle... I look forward to this :-)
Yeah, I'm not usually that good at angles, but I'm giving it a good go anyhow.
That's the spirit!
Have you got any previous work with f1 cars?
It was probably dark where I was too but as there were no windows I couldn't tell.
I'm now on a train from Clapham Junction to Gipsy Hill.
Based on how late we're running I think dinner will probably arrive during Sidepodchat. I'll have to be careful not to talk with my mouth sidepodfull!
Katherine is cooking a roasted squash and chorizo risotto. Yum :)
Bite sized bits which is handy!
I'm guessing everyone else is having their dinner now! Sensible people!
Sounds yummy. We're just setting up.
Aha! There is sidepodlife! :)
I've drawn a few before but mostly side-on.
Yes. Although that sounds a bit like Sidepondlife, which is something different :)
I am just walking up Gipsy Hill now!
Damn I need one of those iPhingies
I've pretty much got the main details of the TF109 done on the car, just lines and shading to do plus some little fiddly bits like the suspension arms.
Live thread is up and about:
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2009/01/25/live-everybodys-talkin-at-me/
Haha, bang the doors really loud and sport a big bad Sidepodcast logo as all heads turn. Great commercial thinking! :-P