We're still keeping a strict eye on those testing in Jerez, but also getting rather excited about the teams that are moving onwards and upwards (or should that be downwards?) to Australia. Here are some of the things up for discussion today:
- BMW have confirmed that their KERS is ready - hoorah, a straight answer about KERS - although they are dithering about trying to decide whether to use it in Australia or not. They're weighing up the pros and cons. Is it simply a matter of weight vs speed, or are there other factors in play here?
- Charlie Whiting has apparently put his foot down and said Williams' skate fins are not acceptable. After "discussions" between FIA officials and the team, Williams have decided to remove said fins in the name of safety. And we all believe that, don't we?
- Meanwhile, in Jerez, Alonso spent one day being carried around by a crane (well, I don't suppose he did personally), and the next topping the timesheets. I wonder how the Renault will fare today, and whether they're getting some useful information out of this topsy-turvy performance?
That'll do it for now, but remember, don't be limited by anything written above. This is your space to share your thoughts, and while you do, I'll see you in the comments.
i guess his engineers forgive him now :)
replay video from sunday is now up here:
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2009/03/15/live-weve-moved-heaven-and-earth-to-make-this-show/
looking through the comments relating to buffering, i think we may have to rethink how we approach multi-person chat shows after this round of panelling. didn't realise there was quite so much frustration. apologies.
The only time I recall that it was at it's least problematic was when the call was hosted outside of SPC Towers (Kathi, I think)
I can understand the need to get cracking but I suppose it does take a little bit of extra planning to organise it
If that is to be the norm then I suppose a pre-requisite should be having the capacity to make Skype calls. Which isn't ideal, but for the greater good and quality of the show and experience....
true. single calls are fine, but beyond that things get tricky.
short term, we could say we'll only do multi-chat without live streaming, but that would kill half the fun. long term we need to do more work to figure out the issues.
And if we had a volunteer to host it on a given Sunday, maybe on a rotational basis?
As you say, video feed does enhance the fun
I don't think it's fair to bump up your costs and plump for a mini ISP in the living room when it could be a cheap and easy option for those, like myself, with decent broadband capacity willing to give it a go.
Maybe it needs a trial on an evening other than a Sunday?
certainly, yup.
completely see what your saying. i wasn't thinking of spending any money though. the plan is to spend time experimenting with more efficient forms of video compression to reduce upstream load.
things like that just take time. hence why i was thinking of reducing our stress levels by sticking to one to one calls, after panel series 2.
that is also a fine idea. i'll have a word with the lady ;)
Just realized - am I the next host? Did Gavin host the last one? :)
rg hosted. so gavin, yourself and then ollie.
i think we're gonna need some more hosts :)
Hello All!
Long time no type. I am live commenting from my first ever trip to Ikea. St. Patricks day here so Ive had a beef and guiness pie while Zoe had Swedish meatballs. I think the mash tasted like hospital food (faint disinfectant taste).
Zoe is reading the catalogue instead of waiting to see everything live. I'm not sure how long we'll be here but only the first three hours of parking is free and I hate paying for parking. Going on previous Sidepodcast comments, I think I'm going to have man up and spend the cash.
This is all I am allowed to type right now.
Adiós Amigo's
We need more first time hosts. Jackie would be good or Lou since we haven't had a female host yet.
There is a section in the wiki which says in case of emergency break glass and there are a few names of some of us who have hosted before but it would be better to get people who haven't done the job before.
Oi! There's no such thing as 'up' or 'down' as gravity pulls toward the centre of the earth...
...Nothing to see here, carry on... ;-)
By the way, is there a panel this weekend? Who will be the host (I am keen to do it some time)?
I might be able to host the skype call as well - I have 1MB/s upload and 10MB/s download...
There was a concern that I think Me had about several people often need to be called and added in (via SkypeOut). So there is that to consider.
I had a dream last night that that I opened Skype and suddenly you called and told me I was hosting a panel. I had nothing prepared and I was desperately trying to invent questions on the fly.
Dreaming about sidepodcast already, this place is infectious!
Oh yes - very infectious indeed.
Perhaps it's trying to tell you that you should volunteer to host the panel, so you have time to prepare? ;)
heh, maybe one day. Give it another panel appearance or two though!
Damn, just saw the time, I need to go to work! Sees yas.
See ya, Chris.
Speaking of work, the drivers are going to work now. Piquet has started doing runs, Button has just finished his installation lap, Rosberg has just gone out of the pits, and Hamilton... has yet to be seen on track.
This article on the BBC irritates me greatly: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7947575.stm
Can anybody think why?
Because KERS is a) not in caps and b) supposed to stand for "energy storage and power boost system" ?
Bingo!
Very amateur. The BBC don't tend to put a name to their articles either, but this looks like the work experience boy had a stab at this one!
I was hoping that's what you meant because I couldn't read past the first sentence!
It sounds very like a bad infomercial written by a BMW hack eg:BMW is one of the road-car manufacturers that already employs such systems in its range and they have been F1's most enthusiastic advocates of the system.
BMW vetoed attempts by other teams to delay the introduction of Kers by at least a year because of the cost of developing it in a global recession.
Come on Beeb, you can and must do better than this.
You know what also annoys me about that article? In Step 3 (the recovery stage) it doesn't explain HOW the energy that is wasted as heat is recovered into Kinetic Energy.
In fact, I'm not sure anyone has explained that one properly to me yet. How does such a device work? Am I missing something here? What creates the power to send to the batteries/flywheel/magical pixies?
Not a good start to the season.
A quid says that by race 3 we'll all be complaining about the coverage!
On a completely different subject. I have finally watched and re-watched the season in review dvd which was only just released here in Australia last week. I know you guys have probably mentioned this before but watching all the races back to back it became apparent to me that Lewis won the championship/or Massa lost it, due to Ferrari's shambolic pit lights system....anyone?
Of course we will! It's the done thing and we'll look back on the ITV coverage with rose-tinted spectacles!
I've contacted the BBC to voice my annoyance. Wonder if they'll make any amendments?
Oh and if you hadn't realised...9 Days 15 Hours, 46 Minutes and 55 Seconds until Friday practice at Albert Park...and counting of course.
And at that point I will try and post a clip of the Danish coverage to show how lucky you guys are ;-)
Yup, sounds like a fair assessment. But then you could also blame it on a variety of other things, like Massa's inability to keep the car on the road at Sepang. Depends on how one sees it...
True, true.
Nope, they won't.
BTW, Button has set a 1:17.9. Lewis' 1:19.4 is suddenly 1.5 secs behind the pace again.
I have written to our F1 broadcaster (Channel 10 Australia) every year for the last few and have not received the standard we fans expect (in terms of showing races live, repeating races etc)and know that this year will be no different.
Don't you get F1 in semi-HD (HD from 10's side, non-HD from FOM's side)?
A lot of championships are decided that way. We have just been used to the Schumacher-era for too long.
Ah yes, good times, good times... well, if you're a Ferrari fan, anyway. ;)
Those years were some of the worst in F1 history. Absolutely appallingly bad races that were dead boring. Schumacher leaving the sport was a breath of fresh air at exactly the right time.
Yeah it was great to see Ferrari come back to the top, but the way they did it was very underhanded and at times downright dishonest, so even that part is tainted for me :-(
So I'm being a bit confused and everything... But did you crazy guys did two debriefs on Sunday right?
Yup.
end of race 1.
it is much easier if we just figure our how to deal with it. there's no sense in making listeners incur costs on our behalf. at the moment we have the most flexible system in that we call call pretty much anyone, anywhere.
now we need to sort a way of streaming up reliably at the same time.
Oh don't worry about any costs I might incur from the panel - I'm waaay too much of a tight a*** to pay for Skype out ;-)
I would still like to be the host of a panel one day though :-)
I had a really crazy idea... which I have no idea if it would work.
Would it be less intensive if you ran skype on your server and then it called you somehow so you would only have 1 thing connecting to you?
Only in the capitals - except, of course, the national capital where we get 'regional' TV, which means no live F1 for me, and many a late night watching the delayed feed...
Three shows in one day! It's like the season has started already!
yes... this sunday!
http://wiki.sidepodcast.com/page/Future+Hosts
that's not crazy, i had a similar thought. problem is, it doesn't have a sound card :(
am looking running the streaming server on a machine in europe and at the same time ensure it has sound so that we can trial just the very thing.
time is our enemy though.
just one small step away for streaming 24/7 ;)
This site that I just found is way beyond my understanding of what you might need... but in case it is helpful here is a link: http://www.mhspot.com/sts/siptosis.html
Then we'll be able to hear you singing all the time!
on the FIA website theres a "2009 Season Preview" button. so i clicked on it.....
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/championships/f1/Pages/SeasonGuide.aspx
Not only is it the worst season preview in the world ever, its factually incorrect....theres no Brawn GP or Jenson or Rubens...
They were pushing it, for sure, but for the most part, it was OK and within the bounds of reason.
That's my opinion, anyway.
Piquet has set a 1:18.3, so Hamilton's 1:19.1 leaves him last - again.
i literally have no idea what any of that means :D
Phew! I thought I was losing my geeky powers!
Standards have been slipping at the BBC News site for a year or two now. Grammar & spelling mistakes used to be a rarity and are now fairly common.
I think an English headmaster-type editor must have retired! ;)
Completely off topic but totally amazing use of tilt-shift photography in video:
http://vimeo.com/3156959
more sponsors for bmw:
http://www.bmw-sauber-f1.com/en/index.html?jumpin=/news/~78/&lity=rssfeed_f1#/news/~78/|0/
wow! we should see more now that it's possible to film using standard photography lenses too.
Current times in Jerez
Button 1:17.844
Rosberg 1:18.071 +0,227
Piquet 1:18.382 +0,538
Hamilton 1:19.121 +1.277
How much faster can BrawnGP go?
If you discount my little braindade 'blushes*
*volunteers*
I have this skype subscription thing so landlines (within Europe) don't cost me anything.
And in other testing news, Audi are almost 1.5 seconds faster than Peugeot in testing.
http://iheartfranck.com/2009/03/17/sebring-is-coming/
Not only is it the worst season preview in the world ever {Comment #48}
I agree. On my computer, it doesn't even load up the main article; just the (outdated) official entry list for drivers, teams and races.
Wow! Impressive...
Bit out of the loop with news because of my sisters silly internet but that seems a very good time.
The lights hurt them in Singapoor, but the engine blow up in Hungary cost them more.
I have been a fan of Keith's work for some time now
It's done in stop-motion with a standard DSLR - with not one but two tilt+shift lenses shoehorned onto the front.
Come Melbourne, and they will have to take the rocket motor off that car.
we were discussing yesterday about the bbc and their big picture. just read this tweet:
http://twitter.com/f1mole/statuses/1341772717
if anyone spots an original idea coming from bbc hq, do holler.
that is one hefty sponsorship deal.
Both F1 cars, All works WTCC cars and all cars of FBMW in all 3 of its series!
Would hate to be their bank balance tomorrow...
woah woah woah lee mckenzie.... what?
?!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73743
£30 million Budget Caps introduced 2010
Assuming there is one. I think their pace is legit.
nice detail on the rear of the reanult front wing:
http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/back-end-of-the-renault-front-wing-jpg
There we go, confirmed. Wins matter in 2009
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73744
Not sure how I feel about this...
Now this is weird... so points matter, but wins count first... Hmmm, it's like they got the worst of both worlds - the lack of focus on reliability, and the missing symbolism of something like medals.
damn, it's late in the day to be bringing in such changes isn't it?
i don't disagree with the premise, but look how close we are to melbourne.
well, there was going to be change one way or another, so as long as no one got surprised that the points system was gonna change, it should be ok.
I just don';t like how points feel kinda pointless now... I mean OK we'll never see someone like Force India winning the championship but just concentrating on wins bugs me. I can totally understand why they'd decide on this, it'll mean we'll see fights for wins a lot more now but the points stuff is still bithering me.
An unfortanate balancing act it seems.
Keith's 15-10 proposal was my favorite. Barring that, FOTA's 12-9 was still much better than this in terms of balancing wins and reliability.
im not sure we will actually, maybe closer to the end of the season, but i'm not sure drivers are going to risk going off or having a crash to win (which is what the FIA obviously want :P )
and it dosent reward a good reliable car, it means a driver can win say 6 races and be done for the season
they will, jon, they will... :)
what's really interesting for me, is that the fia rejected a fota proposal...
yup, which is my beef with this system. but TBH, for a driver to be totally safe in terms of reliability, he'd need at least 8 or 9 wins.
this is also important:
"Teams can also conduct eight one day aerodynamic tests carried out on FIA approved straight line or constant radius sites between 1 January 2009 and the end of the last Event of the 2009 Championship"
restrictions on straight line testing? and where are these approved sites?
well yes, it depends what type of year it is in terms of the other teams, if theres only 1 team that can win apart from you then your going to need more wins, but if there are loads of teams that can win then you'll only need to win less
also, that's from the 1st jan this year. so what happens to those who have already conducted more than 8 tests?
Ah! Restricting them loopholes, I see? I wonder what the 8 are - I'd think Majorca and Kemble are part of the list.
Good question - it will count, those tests before today.
and what if they were conducted at a non-approved site?
Hmmm... good question. I don't think the FIA can penalize them for that; the teams can't see into the future. ;)
i wonder if macca already knew about it, or if the fia are trying to screw them more than anyone else?
My thoughts exactly.
I remain sceptical. Seems Max is determined to spite FOTA, who had a much better proposal.
Hmmm... But why will only McLaren get screwed? Didn't Renault do straight-line testing too?
they did, correct.
You would have thought that the FIA would have decided on their 2009 regulations before 2009 began....
yes you would!
why they need approved sites ill never know, approved circuits i can understand; proper crash barriers are very important....but what exactly is special about these approved sites???
The championship could theoretically be over by Germany.
i guess the paces have to report when a team tests. hence the ia can keep track.
Bloody hell. I leave the house for 5 hours and the FIA move the goal posts again. I thought we had escaped the stupid medals idea but here it is in a different form.
that wasn't english :)
i think the fia want to keep tabs. i wonder what happens if someone goes over?
BBC is also saying that wet tyres are now intermediates and that extreme wets are now wets.
So... what about actual intermediates?
From Autosport:
As a way of enticing teams to take up the option of the budget cap, the FIA has stated that it will tweak the regulations to ensure those with restricted finances will be just as competitive as those spending unlimited amounts of money.
Oh great - a two tier F1 :(
If you are going to run a sporting competition, then you need to ensure that everyone is running to the same set of rules - that is just fundemental.
Either apply the budget cap to everyone,or to none at all.
they are called intermediates.
this is good:
"On the first day of practice all drivers must be available for autograph signing in their designated team space in the pit lane."
which is fine if you can get in the paddock on a race day....
99% of those people are a) rich or b) with a team
Does that mean fans will have access to the pitlane then?
good point. other things of interest though:
"During the race every team must make at least one senior spokesperson available for interviews by officially accredited TV crews."
v.v.good.
Good news for me... if I can get into the paddock when I'm in Sepang. :|
Kinda like when the FIA ran a Jim Clark Cup and Colin Chapman Cup for the normally aspirated cars in 1987, at the peak of the turbo era.
No one really cared for it, save for Tyrrell and the history books.
Here's the full press release:
http://www.f1minute.com/2009/03/17/fia-world-motor-sport-council-decisions/
I like that they just tagged the bit about Brawn GP on the bottom. :)
you can just imagine that someone was about to write "oh and by the way the honda f1 team...." hehe :P
was just asked on twitter how you go about doing that?
WOOOOOOOOOOOAH!!! radio 1 are talking about the point change!!! that never happens!!
It does now.
Funny, though, how the WMSC said that Brawn GP is technically a different entry to Honda... and that the team owe them a debt of gratitude for waiving the entry fee.
frequently.
Honda had already paid the entry fee i think, so if the 'team' had to pay it twice there would be uproar
Is this entry fee different from the 'new team' fee? Is the 'new team' fee even still around post-Concorde?
i dont see them as a new team really, its just like Midland/Spyker/Force India, they're all the same team
Kimi is going to love all the new media accessibility rules.
:D
here's something else interesting from max:
"We are also thinking about a much bigger capacity KERS for the cost-capped teams."
that's not going to increase confusion in any way shape or form, is it?
I wouldn't smile so much - it might make him retire sooner. :(
Do I understand this right? The drivers standing is decided by the old point system just that the one with the most wins gets elevated WDC independent on how many points he has?
So how will they list the drivers during the season? If the list them according to wins the 1. position is correct but the rest might be totally wrong and if the list according to points it might be wrong as well.
I assume they will put the driver with the most wins at the top then list everyone else in points order. Might get a bit confusing for the less hardcore fans out there.
If the guy can't hack talking to the media, he's in the wrong job.
believe so.
uuuuuuuummmmm?
Exactly.
what if the man with the most wins is, say, 3rd?
that's gonna be confusing, even for us.
How about listing the drivers by wins, and then have another column for points?
And: At the moment it doesn't hurt too much if Heikki/Kimi win the race in front of Lewis/Massa. It's 'just' two points lost. But now it will have a big impact on the WDC. So more team orders?
With only 20 cars on the grid (and some of those on thin ice) - errr, no.
Not quite - the Chapman cup was effectively a secondry competition - a 'class B' if you like.
This is two sets of rules in one copetition - kinda like at Le Mans, where the ACO try to ballance different types of engine and closed/open cars. The ACO actually does a very good job of encrounging different technologies - giving a diverse grid of different engines and body shapes - however if you don't have a deisel engine...
Exactly, Lewis could come second in the first 10 races and have the most points, but if Kovi has won a couple of races and crashed out of the rest, who do the team put their weight behind?
kovi.
Which is the major issue with the system. What if his two wins were his only points finishes? He would be easily second best to Lewis, but the team would have no choice but to make him number 1 towards the end of the season. I'm a firm believer that the most consistent driver should be rewarded. That's why Kubica was in the hunt last year and the season was all the more exciting for it.
He's not a PR spokesperson, he's a racing driver. He drives fast and wins champions - he's in the right job.
Championships, rather.
championship... surely. unless you've read another fia document i missed ;)
I don't want to hear from a PR spokesperson. I want to hear from a racing driver.
Kimi opened up a lot last year, but if he hadn't - why would I care about a guy who doesn't care enough to talk to us? F1 is nothing without the fans, you can't shut them out.
haha, they aren't changing history now are they?
hehe. i was thinking they mighta declared the '09 champion already.
Just because Kimi doesn't talk to us doesn't mean he doesn't care.
We support racing drivers because they're good at what they do, not necessarily because they speak out often. Mika Hakkinen was not much more talkative than Kimi, but it didn't make him any less of a champion.
maybe i should declare him the 09 champion... then we can come back to this comment when he becomes champ. ;)
Just listening back to the panel, I realised we missed out a vital answer.
me, who's your man crush? :D
It doesn't reflect on their driving ability at all. But talking to the media is part of being an F1 driver, it is pretty much our only access to them as fans.
I'm not saying he has to enjoy it. All jobs come with a side of it that you'd rather not have.
It's a nice plus if he talks to the media regularly, but if he doesn't, it shouldn't be a requirement; I won't take it against him being in F1. Let's remember that Ferrari specifically lessened his load of commitments just to keep him happy; and it worked - he won a championship.
A good point
And Frentzen coming close to winning the WDC in 99
In theory a driver could turn up and win the first five races, then go home and watch the rest of the season on TV and still be champion.
Fair enough. That's where we differ. I don't see that hearing from a driver should be considered a "bonus".
A modern driver should, as much as possible, talk to the fans and media. But if he doesn't, why force him? If his heart is just not into it, it will just come across as insincere. The bottom line should be how good he is at what he does.
The Good:
30m Budget cap - This will reward the cleverest teams rather than the richest.
Finally calling the tyres their proper names. AT LAST!
The teams opening up more to the media (even though it's against their will).
The Bad:
The big possibility of having an inconsistent and undeserved WDC.
Publishing the weights of the cars after quali (This will completely ruin the "who has the most fuel" question which can be very entertaining as a viewer.
The Ugly:
Max Mosely's smug face.
ted.
It's true that they are primarily there to race, but remember that the fans pay a chunk of his (gigantic) wage, so he must owe us something.
And it's not as if he never talks to the media. He is on Finnish TV every day of the race weekends and usually on RTL as wekk for a short interview and 2 or 3 times a year for a longer feature.
But if teams are keeping their drivers from the press, for whatever corporate or timekeeping reasons, then mandating they spare the media some time can only be a good thing.
If it's just one driver out of twenty that feels uncomfortable about it, then it's still worthwhile.
I don;t know why the tyres stuff confused me earlier, I've just re-read the whole thing on F1 minute and suddenly feel very stupid for being confused by it.
:(
Good answer.
i blame steven.
So now we have a win/points situation that favours absolute wins for the drivers' title and consistency for everything else.
Do you think that perhaps teams targeting the World Championship might have liked to have known that absolute speed would be more important than reliability back before they started the design process in late 2007 rather than just as the last testing for the season is finishing?
Why on earth if absolute wins decide the title are second places not the next tie-breaker?
As for this cheapo team option, I suspect it is Mosley's way of altering the rules in their favour until the proper teams have no choice but to join the scheme or become uncompetitive thus rail-roading his invasive, stupid, turn-F1-into-the-new-IRL master-plan past any opposition. He seems intent on leaving his historical mark on Formula One by destroying it's heritage. Only a few years ago, he suggested essentially making it a one-make series and seems to have become obsessed that cheaper is better.
Has anyone given any thought to suggesting he resign? He could spend more time with his paid sex workers.
Dang, it's going off over on BBC 606. People are not happy about the new rules one bit.
why not? all seems pretty good to me.
You'd think so, wouldn't you.
but the thing with kimi is - you don't need to pay him to race, he will race whatever, whenever. he would probably race that ferrari for free if it meant zero PR commitments.
Just the new points system really. That, and the fact that it has all happened so close to the start of the new season. I don't think anyone can complain about the budget changes.
So would a robot. How is that interesting?
The trouble with the new points regs is that, for the layman, it could be terribly confusing.
However, I understand that the current points system needs to stay along with the new wins system, otherwise how else could you keep track of the constructor's championship? Unless of course they made the constructor's championship win based as well???
a robot would drive based on algorithms. kimi drives based on what he knows, and his instincts and reflexes - the human element.
a good example - belgium 2002. there was an instance where kimi had to catch his sliding McLaren. a robot would have done it differently from kimi, because kimi does it based on reflex and instinct. it's not the best way, but it's the most entertaining way.
But you'll never be able to find out about them because he has zero PR commitments.
i would... kimi doesn't really talk about him 'james hunt' racing exploits or his gorilla-suited escapades, but we hear about it anyway. you don't find out the best bits of a driver from planned PR events, you find out about them from the informal gatherings, those that just come about out of the blue.
The would have been better off going back to something like the old 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 system. That way winners are rewarded without penalising consistency.
Absolutely. There are very few of those moments, though.
But then the lower midfield teams don't score as often, which is why I guess they kept the scoring to 8th.
Which is why I'm saying we just let them be. If they'll open up, they'll open up without our prodding.
Only if you go looking for it.
The best moments come from the unplanned, but that doesn't mean I want to wait all year for a single snippet from some party.
I want to hear what a driver thinks after a race, whether or not he's in a good mood.
I just got invited to a Facebook group objecting to the FIA rule changes... already??
Wich is why the 12 points for the winner system that FOTA came up with would have been perfect. It really is a terrible terrible idea.
We didn't - the media told us about it.
that's what you have the unilaterals for.
I really wonder the FIA rejected FOTA's idea, though - Ferrari came up with it! ;)
because they are egotistical maniacs who have to have things their way?
Just a thought.
I see that the weight of cars post-qualifying will be published. What's the point of having race fuel in Q3 then.....?
Surely there is no fun now in Q3.
Probably because the WMSC can't propose a rule of their own - they can only choose from the proposals at hand.
They wanted winning to be rewarded - and they didn't bother considering how it balances out with reliability. They probably thought 12-9 doesn't reward winning enough, so they went with FOM's idea instead. Better to over-reward than under-reward, I guess?
What's a unilateral?
To be fair, this is in response to what some fans and TV people were saying - that the weight of cars be published, so that they can see who did well and who didn't.
it does strike me as a bit pointless
The 2010 budget cap or no cap thing.........why? F1 just got a whole lot more confusing.
Post-quali and post-race press conferences are divided into two parts: first, the unilateral, which is the part shown on TV - only Peter Windsor or the FOM-appointed journalist can ask questions. second, the open forum, not shown on TV, where everyone can ask questions.
that said, if what we're looking for is post-race reaction, that alone should suffice.
another thing that im a little confused about is that the budget cap isnt mandatory....
Aren't they just for the three drivers though?
they'd never get everyone to agree - FIA/FOM is afraid that it will make some of the manufacturers leave.
i guess, i'd have imposed big cap on them, say 70-90 million, so that it lowers costs, but not too dramatically, and then lower it slowly over the next few years
good point - yep, just for the top 3. for those not in the top 3 - well, it's not always ideal to talk to a driver after a bad race - Mark Webber in Fuji 2007 was a good example.
that makes sense... therefore, it will never see the light of day.
well with the new point and wins system we can have a title decided by the time F1 arrives in Monaco. but we can also have 8 drivers with 2 wins by the time F1 arrives in Abu Dhabi :-)
still I wish they went for the FOTA idea or at least kept it the way ot was ...
That is a perfect example. Swearing aside, how brilliant to find that Webber dismissed Vettel a little kid, and now faces the threat of being beaten by him.
haha. v.good point :)
Bring back the old days when if a driver was in a sulk, he would not even bother with the podium. They have become performing dogs that have to answer everything but are not allowed to have oppinions of any character for fear of offending someone.
Bless Mark Webber and David Coulthard for their colourful post-crash oppinions.
But he could've dismissed him without swearing, right? We didn't need to hear that. And had we waited until he was ready to talk, that's precisely what would've happened.
disagree. itv could've delayed and beeped it. but i want to here a driver after gets exists the car. not lewis' stoney silence in france.
webber would've talked, media or no media. lewis does as his PR does.
Well that's true, and there's nothing in there that says they have to talk the second they get out of the car.
But you're suggesting if he was never ready to talk he shouldn't have to, and if you either leave it too long, or let them get away with it, then we would never have heard his opinion and I wouldn't be eagerly looking forward to seeing who outperforms who.
the reaction wouldn't have been the same!!
Is that really that likely though, even with all the uncertainty of the season ahead? I think it's far more likely that it will all be over with 4 or 5 races to go.
The epic ending of last season was a fantastic advert for the sport, but now there is little chance of a repeat of it.
one season it'll happen.
As I said earlier, knowing Webber, he'd talk - media or no media. Come to think of it, many drivers would still talk. But if people like Kimi don't really want to talk, leave him be.
one season in how many though?
What if they were all like Kimi?
Football managers give interviews after every game, happy or not.
well, as soon as the championship is over by half-way through the season, the fia will change the system again. so it'll only happen once ;)
ahhh, interesting. what about players?
That's never happened in the history of F1. You get your Sennas and Mansells and Alonsos - people who like to talk. In fact, they outnumber the Kimis and Mikas of F1 history - by a big margin, too.
Good point, they can't leave the sport for five minutes without tinkering with it.
Heres a little transcript with me and my dad from the car ride home
Dad : 'I see the championship now decided by who wins the most?'
Me : 'They haven't?'
Dad : 'Yep'
Me : 'No, please no. Oh god.'
--
One and only time I went to the BTCC I had a walk around the pitlane like you can, its just brilliant, the drivers are actually happy to sign stuff for ya, some free stuff given away (like a Team RAC cap) And the cars shown so everyone can see.
Yep, even on the losing side.
theoretically, using the FIA's new rule, the title STILL would've been decided early in 2002 and 2004 - even earlier than it was at the time, actually.
good, the way it should be and i for one salute the fia for putting their foot down.
Which is a brilliant thing, and I am thankful otherwise it would be a quiet paddock. I still don't think it lets Kimi off the hook though. Just because someone else is shouting about their performance, doesn't mean I don't want to hear what he thinks.
In fact, chances are what he has to say is ten times more interesting.
Well obviously there are too many to interview them all, but there are always two or three interviewed before they even get to the changing rooms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=999pNkBN5N4
Action from yesterday's testing. Not enough footage of the Brawn-Mercedes though I feel :(
I've been watching my old F1 DVDs as of late - so I've seen a good number of Kimi's interviews and statements. To be honest, there wasn't much interesting in what he was saying. Nothing interesting at all.
Or cup final day where the whole team is usually interviewed ;)
This reminds of 2005 when tyre changes during pitstops were banned, but then allowed from 2006. I think they'll scrap the idea after the end of this year.
1. It's unlikely to be a hit with fans.
2. We're all thinking it will be a tight season, but it could also be dominated by one team. We could be setting ourselves up for a big anti-climax.
They just said on skysportsnews that the 2004 season would have been wrapped up at silverstone.
The lap he did for the Season Review dvd in I think Spain was quite boring and really I'd have not learnt much from that than from any other drivers.
Again, fair enough. I would suggest the DVD editors need a talking to then :)
But if there are twenty people available to talk to, chances are you're going to find something good. If you have two people available to talk to, that's it. That's your story.
If it's a Brawn dominance, that would be cool. Otherwise, it would be rather... bland.
Any dominance would be rather bland if I'm honest, I'd probably get bored if BMW won all the time.
True, which makes me go back to my point - most drivers will talk anyway, media or not. Kimi is the exception here, not the rule.
we'd make him sound interesting ;)
Especially if they were keeping Timo off the podium ;)
heeeeeeh!
I hope I'm wrong, but think they may well have already ruined what was shaping up to be a fantastic season.
Which goes back to my point - if he can't stand talking to the media, he's in the wrong job.
Sounds like we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Timo can finish third. Unless the FIA have took off the third step this year?
I'd only hate a Ferrari dominance from the start. Although any team except for Brawn I would probably tire of as the season went on.
If you have the DVDs, listen to Kimi's flying laps. You'll notice something - he never does running commentary on his laps, he doesn't know what to talk about during the lap. So what they do instead is they ask him some pre-prepared questions, then his answers are just used as the "commentary" for the lap.
They might as well take second off as well.
They don't really care about that - so long as Ferrari wins. At least that's what you'd think given their recent form. Did they get peeved that Lewis won at the last corner last season?
So Bernie win again, well kinda. I'm absolutely digusted it's not for him to f*** about with our sport, sell the TV right make your dollar's and keep your nose out bernie. The sport should be, like any other sport, run by it's governing body and the general concensus of it's participants. Any way rant over, 78 yr old won't be about much longer..........
The sooner we make a stand, and I DO mean WE as supporters and let the people at the top know exactly what we think the better, where's our voice-box, FOTA etc etc will some-one stick their head above the parapet and shout for the fans?
Yep, looks like it. :) Good discussion, though.
Just catching up before walking the dog,a couple of things.
All cars must meet the minimum weight limit when testing so, I presume, the approved sites have approved weighing facilities.
The late changes to the points, testing rules etc. do rather make me think that there is a bit of a split in the FIA. I seem to recall similar late changes in the last years of the Balestre presidency of the FIA.
The new points system, terrible. I love to see people trying to win but it will be so confusing for the watching public. Ah sorry. That's not who F1 is for. My mistake
how has bernie won bootneck? there are no medals?
If we complain, we just get replaced by newer casual fans. They'll only listen if the TV ratings drop by 50% - which given F1's nature, will never happen.
Minimum weight is mandatory in testing? Didn't know that. Makes me feel a bit better about Brawn.
But wins are rewarded - which is what Bernie wanted. Bernie was the one that proposed this new points/wins system.
Medals wasn't the core of his idea though, it was just a way of getting wins-only across. And now he's got that.
It is?! Where did you read that?
No wonder they think Brawn's pace is legit.
news to me. can you clarify graham?
The minor victory, no blinkin medals.
i'm sure it isn't?
fair enough. but he only suggested it after everyone said his first idea sucked.
so he is listening.
Is this the silver lining here? Is there light at the end of the Mosley tunnel?
but the medals were a smokescreen for the wins-only idea. so he just removed the smokescreen. which makes the FIA look a bit silly.
Somewhere in the back of my addled brain I recall a huge furore after the Prost team set fantastic test times. The FIA, I think ruled that the cars must be weighed as a "safety" measure but the rumours were that it was more to do with prost's unpopularity with FIA.
Interesting. I don't think Joe knows about this, though, does he?
Just looked in the back of the F1 yearbook which has the rules and under the Testing and Weighing sections, it does not say that cars have to meet the minimum weight when testing. :(
I didn't know of the Prost thing.
He win's coz the WMSC have'nt backed FOTA they've gone with, not the medals but the fact that most race wins, equals world champ. How is engineering consistancy rewarded then, you can have a few good races, come 1st and take the title, where as some-one who has plugged away all season and made the maximum effort to contest but not won a lot of races gets penalised. No sorry on this 1 I think Bernie wins and I think it sucks.
I may be wrong. Frequently am according to my partner. But I am sure somewhere....... Will try to remember whilst the dog and I stroll across Cornish fields in the evening sun. Heavenly. And if I can't remember then a detour to the pub might help.
FOTA aren't happy with the changes,to no surprise...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73754
They mention that fans and manufacturers etc will be confused by the new changes and the turning of principles in F1 against what they want for F1. I'm worried about the possibility of a two tier sport myself but I can't blame them for being unhappy.
Unfortunately the new "most wins" wins system is just a knee jerk reaction to the fact that the current champion, despite scoring more points, did not win more races than the guy who came second.
I suspect it will all change again when we get a champion in a fast car that lacks reliability who wins 6 or 7 races and fails to finish the rest and beats the driver who wins 4 or 5 races and consistently finishes on the podium in the others.
Sorry, been out for the afternoon buying my temporary car. :D Yup - actually bought one this time.
Sounds like the WMSC have been playing silly buggers again....
Under the new rules, in 2004, not only would Michael Schumacher have won by the British GP (the 11th round of 18) but after the previous GP in France, only he and Trulli would have remained in theoretical contention.
Also, last season's title would have been decided in Massa's favour by the decisions to penalise Hamilton in Belgium and not penalise Massa at Valencia.
the whole most wins thing is stupid. there is no piont in some of the further back teams taking part. why should teams like williams(atm) and Force india take part. the whole point for those teams is the points but if that not there any more then why should they be there. people keep saying about how if it were like that last year then massa would have won but think about it what about the other drivers. if it were this rule last year then Kubica wouldnt have been in the title hunt at all. It was Kubica's consistancy that got him there. consistancy is the key to Formula One. Without consistancy over the season you arent good enough. It's an endurance race not a 100m sprint!!!
First comment to being inside your head in less than 2 weeks. That's sidepodcast.
News flash, Bernie's on Radio 2 in about 6 mins to explain himself.
Ooh.. interesting. Cheers!
Especially as their own proposal is considered far better by most.
I'm making some great points aren't I.
'Someone in 2nd will try to win rather than get points. It'll give them motivation to win'
pfft.
So would 4 more points.
There be dark forces at work here.....
Now read all the changes.
What the**** are the WMSC smoking?!?
So, you in theory could have someone on 90 points through 9 wins taking the championship and the runner up having 152 points through winning 8 races and finishing 2nd in the rest?
What the hell?!
So, you get 8 engines a year - run them on the edge of destruction so they last just over 1 race each - but are massively fast and you have a damn good chance of winning the championship even though you won't have any chance in the other 9 races.
Well done the WMSC - A decision Walt Disney would be proud of. Truly Mickey Mouse.
All because the wrong driver won the championship in 2008.
hhmmm. hadn't considered that.
yup.
That is the dumbest decision Max has ever made. It is insane. Still it makes it easier for the stewards to rig the championship.
Really you could have a driver who wins 6 races, but because says 2/3 of them were flukes and the rest were alright and then someone else who wins 5 times who consistantly finishes in the points and podium posistions. Ridiculous really.
I shall be sending in my predictions right now.
Whilst I'm on about me, Mr C has a chance of beating me tomorrow at the quiz, mainly cos I will be playing football under floodlights. ;)
just read this tweet:
http://twitter.com/ValerianForrest/statuses/1343455360
have to ask, are any other motorsport championships decided on wins alone?
The guy has finally flipped. He is going to allow teams with a limited budget to use unlimited technology. That sounds safe. Let people put technology on track that they can't possibly have tested properly.
when is the quiz tomorrow and where and how do you take part?
On other news - Jean Toad has resigned entirely from Ferrari.
So, there we have it. The new president of the FIA being lined up for the job.
http://www.pitlanefanatic.com/chat.php
8:30pm alex. probably worth creating a login now though.
So teams have designed and built cars over the last year on the basis that they need to consistently finish races and rack up points. Now when they have finished testing they have to magically convert those cars to be faster but less reliable. We could see the championship going to someone who only finishes 4 races. In 1982 over 16 races no-one won more than two. This is mental.
Is anyone else sick of being treated like an idiot by the FIA?
I cannot believe this decision on points has been taken. Fair enough, extreme measures had to be taken to cut costs and such, but this is a load of horse manure. The FIA and Max seem hell bent on killing a sport which I previously would have supported no matter what, but if this continues I'm not so sure.
We, the fans, asked for a bigger gap between 1st and 2nd, not this.
We should really start to push the Steven Roy for president right about now.
It seems the uproar from this decision is pretty noticeable, various places are goping mad about it and even on the radio before the bernie quote they were amazed at the stupidity of the move. what are the chances of the FIA retracting their decision?
I know it's probably 1% of it happening but one can hope...
There's worse ways to be treated by the President of the FIA.... ;)
Takes a moment to dream.
Sadly it aint gonna happen in years, shame.
seconded.
What a crazy news day.
On top of all the FIA shenanigans, Jean Todt's hanging up his headphones.
Who'll wear all the wooley jumpers in the summertime now, I ask you? :(
I guess they don't want someone doing straight line testing to be able to return from the end of the straight to the begining via some taxi ways which make up a nice little circuit where they can get cornering information.
tis true. it's a political move against fota. unfortunately, this is the fall out.
i know, and iphone is getting copy/paste.
Didn't he leave already?
Here's a hypothetical scenario:
Driver 1 - 5 wins, no other points = 50 points
Driver 2 - 5 wins, 1 x 2nd place = 58 points
Driver 3 - 4 wins, 10x 2nd places = 130 points
As there are 2 drivers tied on wins - they say it then reverts to points. Does this mean that Driver 3 becomes champion then? Or driver 2?
ahhh, good point.
Driver 2 I think, since it goes tie-break between them.
He left the F1 team, but was still teh CEO of Ferrari *iirc*
Leaving Ferrari puts him in the perfect position now to start being championed by a certain cretin to replace him as President of the FIA.
If Brawn really have the advantage they appear to it could be over before that because everyone will know they are going to win enough races to do the job. Imagine 2002 when Schumacher won by about Spa. With this system the championship would effectively have been over before half way.
This is beyond stupid.
i can't see the man leaving. not even for todt.
unless he creates another position for himself.
Driver two isn't it? Since it reverts to points if they're tied on race wins and driver three has less wins than the others.
Bridgestone always called them wet and extreme wet while everyone else called them inters and wets. I guess Bridgestone have decided to fall in line with the rest of us.
The documents don't cover that...
So what if they both win 5 races and have no other finishes? Would driver 3 get it then?
Yeah, it refers to the points of the drivers that were tied, noone else.
Yeah I misread what was being said, it took me a while to realise. Slow day. ;)
I've been reading up more on everything and looking at more comments from f1 fans around the interwebs, and it's such a shame to see some of the responses. people saying they're genuinely concerned for the sport when the bosses are more interested in proving their power over the interests of the fans and others feel like F1 is losing it's pulling power with crap this this... :(
The problem is going to be if you have three drivers with one win each after the first three races. You could have a situation where one of them only finished one race and is 6th on points but in joint lead of the championship in wins.
This just proves that they obviously haven't thought it through properly. I hope something like that does happen, just to see them desperately think of a way to decide the winner, then pretend they had planed for it all along.
Definitely team orders now.
Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I'm still in shock lol.
But you're not allowed team orders. ;)
One will have to develop ovrheating or fading brakes *cough cough*
And probably earlier in the season as well.
Depends how many wins the first guy has. If no-one has more than 4 or 5 wins they push Kovi to win but if the first guy has 8 wins then they push Lewis.
I think Todt just might stand for FIA president should Mosley opt to step down when his current run ends in October, or even stand against him should Max run for a fifth term...
If only the fans could vote... It could be the biggest landslide since...well, a lot of snow fell off a mountain somewhere.
Isn't there a rule that if two drivers are completely tied the FIA can decide who they want to be champion?
Companies are paying hundreds of millions of whatever currency you choose for him to race. His job is to give them value for money. If he comes across well people buy merchandise wth those company's logos on it. It is part of his job to sell advertising.
We think the team's business is motor racing. It is not. THey make very little from tha. Their business is to sell advertising and the drivers would do well to remember that.
I think it's shocking that former team principals would even be considered for FIA president. There is no way to guarantee impartiality. Enough people think they are biased towards Ferrari as it is, without putting Todt in charge.
It's rather amusing that the FIA put in a rule saying 'no team orders' a few season back. They also changed the points system after Schuey won the championship too early in the season.
These new changes essentially reverse what they voted on a few years back?!
Also, off topic, now that Peter Windsor's going off and running his own team in 2010, I wonder who'll get the job of interviewing the drivers at the end of the race??
I bet Max Mosley is quaking in his boots!
'me'?
Man what a day! Our office got evacuated at lunchtime because there was a big release of Ammonium gas! I had to leave all my stuff behind but luckily my mate let me wait at his house. The office still stinks and it may not be open tomorrow. Some of my colleagues got sick too. I am ok, just that I'll be home late :-(
What's this rubbish about changing the points system? It sounds like F1's version of 'The Race For The Chase For The Cup For The Thing' - which is VERY bad and very confusing. It didn't work for NASCAR (the best driver never becomes the champion).
I've been reading the comments and I can understand why people are so angry about this... Why do the rulemakers in F1 feel that they have to keep meddling with the rules like this? They must think that we are absolutely stupid! We have just had FOUR great seasons of F1 and yet they feel the need to completely change the cars AND NOW they give us a confusing Mickey-Mouse scoring system!!!
This is just insulting. At some point enough will be enough and people will just stop putting up with this s*** and this lifelong fan has just got a little bit closer :-(
That really rolls off the tongue.
I have argued that since the system was replaced.
100,000,000 people can't go to informal gatherings.
what if they all dress down?
for gavin. new in the upcoming version of iphone 3.0:
"Note Sync... you can sync your notes."
http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/17/live-from-apples-iphone-os-3-0-preview-event/
found it, my guess is 7.2d) will stay the same
2009 F1 Sporting Regulations 5th February 2009
7) DEAD HEAT
Prizes and points awarded for all the positions of competitors who tie, will be added together and shared equally.
7.2. If two or more constructors or drivers finish the season with the same number of points, the higher place in the Championship (in either case) shall be awarded to :
a) the holder of the greatest number of first places,
b) if the number of first places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of second places,
c) if the number of second places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of third places and so on until a winner emerges.
d) if this procedure fails to produce a result, the FIA will nominate the winner according to such criteria as it thinks fit.
Don't worry chaps. We'll have a completely silly season of F1 in '09, the FIA will see the error of their ways and it'll all go back to normal. Then Frank Montagny will get a seat at Mclaren and it'll rain spam sandwiches in the pitlane.
that is an actual rule??
that is genius
i assumed kathi was joking!
I'm German ;)
I would not want the toad to become the FIA president. The man is just as underhanded and devious as Mad Max. In fact, we would end up with a situation very similar to the transition from Balestre to Mosley. Mosley was the lesser if two evils, that was all.
ehehehehe.
Halle-effin'-lulah!!!
Too... many.... jokes.... :D
What are the chances that the FIA might back down on the points issue? I'd say slim but what they are doing just causes confusion to casual or new fans.
There was nothing wrong with what FOTA proposed, it met all the criteria the FIA and Bernie wanted and wouldn't confuse the fans.
Bernie wanted the driver with the most wins to be champion and that is what has happened. Bernie has won. No surprise as he works Max by remote control.
Soon the iPhone will catch up with what Windows Mobile and Symbian has been doing for years. ;)
soon there will be no windows mobile or symbian.
developers are leaving them in droves.
The driver with the reddest car?
:D
Maybe they will look at who finishes highest in the Best Looking Driver.
I don't believe it
Hasn't it always been like that?
If both drivers have say 5 wins, 4 2nds, 3 3rds etc etc how else are you going to decide it???
i guess that's true. i just didn't know the rule existed.
What an absolutely terrible decision by the FIA.
I'm not too worried by this system producing an undeserved world champion, myself. The drivers with the most wins are always in the championship battle anyway. What makes this idea totally mad is it could quite easily ruin the excitement of the championship battle, especially at the last race.
Think of 2008. Brazil would have been pretty unspectacular. Felipe was leading for the entire race and would have won the championship, regardless of where Lewis finished. Then Lewis would have scored the most points in the season and not got the same reward everyone who has done so before has got. I'm not in any way a Lewis fan, but that is obviously unfair.
The final race of the season is probably going to be dull enough at the location it's in, but there's less chance of the championship actually making it that far with this system. And even if it did, what if neither of the championship rivals are in contention for the race win? Unless the drivers are tied on wins, the championship may as well be over.
And what ever made people think drivers wont go for wins if they had the opportunity? Of course they would. All this system does is make it harder for drivers from teams who are not competing for the championship to win races.
I may be proved wrong, but I do not like this idea one bit. I just don't get why the current point system so desperately needs replacing in some way. Using that system last year provided what was probably the most exiting finish to the championship ever.
I can't even comprehend my thoughts around this one. Once I think that Formula One couldn't be even more poorly managed, adjudicated, and run; they come up with another whopper like this.
We certainly know now who has the WMSC in their hip pocket. The question is, which side is Ferrari really on...
Oooo!Oooo! I know!! Drinking competition. (Actually Kimi would win that hands down, wouldn't he)?
None I have ever heard of.
because its a stupid idea!
Yeah, I think that's always been hidden away in the rules but it's never come into effect. You'd think some kind of shoot out after the last race would be a better way of doing it though. Or what's wrong with just calling it a dead heat and sharing the championship?
Many of us have for many, many years. Max's predecessor was every bit as bad.
It seems worse than ever recently though.
I have never been a meber of a facist party so I don't think I am eligible.
it isn't. we're just more connected now.
:P
Mazda RX-8 231 in Red, with the red and black leather interior, prodrive suspension pack and the chrome pimp alloys. :D
Don't necessarilly like the alloys *pain to clean* but the rest is spot on.
I'm sure we could fabricate you a sordid past if the need arose.
Todt left the team but he was still on the main board of Ferrari.
isn't that what wikipedia was invented for?
Max named Todt as his successor years ago but he has too much ego to ever resign. Unless Bernie decides to do to him what he did to Balestre Max has the job for life.
How long did it take to get rid of groved tyres?
a touch more than a decade :)
Hang on....
Just read read it - the constructors championship is still decided on points?
Are they deliberately trying to drive the casual follower out?
Joint champions. You could have 4 drivers with 4 wins and no other points finishes. I assume that the normal system of deciding on all place finishes applies. So if one of the four drivers had a 9th and the next best a 10th then the first of those two would get it. How they are going to explain to the casual viewer that 4 drivers finsihed equally on wins and points but one of them is champion because he finished in a better non-points position than the others I don't know.
I can picture some of the scenarios at a last race decider and they are not pretty.
Unbelievable!
No, they are just too blinded by their own egos to se how stupid they are.
There will be team orders in Melbourne. There have to be.
I look forward to these wins over points choice being taken off in 2020 then ;)
Especially as they have spent the season telling everyone that points aren't important to the championship.
Not even if they were all naked.
When the first team first uses teams orders when they have a 1-2, surely the idea will be scrapped?
No it is legit
Which on has the reddest paint woul be my guess at the criteria.
:D
I think thats something entirely different then...
Maybe not in melbourne, but if a driver is ahead by a couple of wins by the third of the season then team orders should take affect. how the teams will manage to do that when team orders are banner though is a mystery. I suspect we'll be seeing more and more interesting and unique ways of team mates overtaking each other this year.
Here's how last season would have panned out:
08 points system:
1) Hamilton
2) Massa
3) Kimi
4) Kubica
5) Alonso
6) Kovy
7) Vettel
09 Points System:
1) Massa
2) Hamilton
3) Kimi
4) Alonso
5) Kubica
6) Kovy
7) Vettel
Not much of a change is there?
Does anyone remember a few months back there was a vote on the official F1 website as to peoples opinions of Bernies medals system? The results of said poll were never released. Anyone else think that the result was a big fat 'no, it's a stupid idea', so they have brushed it under the carpet and gone ahead with the 'most wins wins' system anyway?
Not true. There are many examples of the driver with the most points not winning the championship. In the 80s Max's predecessor Jean-Marie Balestre specialised in wierd points systems. Many championships were decided on the best 11 of 16 scores. One season he dreamt up the wierdest system ever. The best 4 of a driver's scores in the first 8 races added to the best 4 of his last 8 races. In Senna's first championship year Prost scored quite a few more points than Senna.
Jim Clark scored 100% of the avaliable points in both of his championship years as a driver's best 6 of 10 scores counted. In 1963 Clark won 7 races so he not only scored 100% of the maximum points total but he had a win to spare.
At least all of those systems still reward consistency to some extent though.
Is that an informal meeting with Max?
It's like the FIA/AMD surveys. Some answers are not published and some of the interpretation skews the facts beyond belief.
brundle's not so worried:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7948455.stm
(video half way down)
Think of Senna's first championship season. McLaren won 15 of 16 races. Senna won 8 and Prost won 7. The driver's best 11 scores counted. Over the season Prost was far more consistent but the championship was decided on the basis that Senna recorded one more win.
I was thinking of the best 11 results system, but I had no idea about the best 4 results in each half of the season. What year was that?
brunde on today's fia changes:
I can't remember the season but I have a feeling Piquet ended up as champion so that would make it 81,83,or 87 but I could be totally wrong. I think it was one of the years they ended at Las Vegas.
Interesting.
i was swinging towards - "this is the worst idea ever" before seeing that, now i'm thinking. "maybe it's no big deal really".
ahh, i'm so fickle.
I still think you were right first time.
:)
Brundle's always so calm!
Just read on JA's blog
Aaaah, the dullest and most uninteresting of biscuits. How appropriate. ;)
:D
:D
Although - I do like the Cadburys Chocolate covered Rich Tea biccies. ;)
Imagine the last race of the season where the first two drivers are running line astern and the driver in second is leading the championship but if they stay in those positions the driver in first wins it. The driver in second HAS to make an overtaking move regardless how insane. I know the same thing can happen with points but when you are dealing with wins the numbers are much smaller so the likelihood of a tie or a one score difference is much closer.
Now imagine we have a situation where the driver in second wins the championship if he makes the overtaking move successfully but if he wipes out the leader and himself his team mate becomes champion. What kind of risk is he going to take in that situation especially if his contract is up for renewal.
Bernie is only interested in money so an incident like that would result in TV news providers paying him for the footage and would keep F1 in the press for much of the close season. If one ofthe drivers dies as a result he makes more money.
Max on the other hand is a self appointed safety guru and should not be creating situations where drivers will be encouraged to take risks like that.
This system is either going to lead to the championship being decided in late summer or in someone taking an insane risk to try and win at the last round. Nothing good can come of that.
Evening all. What can I say? Speechless that Bernie's mad idea has been approved. I was having a good day too.
Did you moderate my Basil Fawlty joke?
The ITV F1 website has a poll on the new points system, if anyone's interested.
www.itv-f1.com
If you look on our almanac http://www.pitlanefanatic.com/almanac.php underneath each drivers points table there is a reminder of how points were scored .. for example, in 1968, points were awarded as follows: Points system: 9, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1. Only best ten results counted. (Five from first six races, five from last six)
yes.
sidepodspace update
The shuttle is due to dock with the ISS in just over an hour. NASA TV are currently showing some fabulous footage of the shuttel from the ISS with the Earth in the background.
So what is the answer to the question then?
i can see there being a lot of them. this poll however, is the only poll that counts:
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2009/03/17/best-looking-driver-cup-2009/
I haven't got that far back in the comments yet .. what was the question?
Sweet. :D
What year did the driver's best 4 results of the first 8 races and his best 4 of the last 8 count. It was in the 80s some time.
Fair enough. I strongly suspect the ammonia fumes are going to my head :-(
I'll try and make up for it by saying that years ago my parents had a copy of the 'Camping and Caravanning' magazine that had a section called "A caravanner's guide to Europe." It droned on about driving conditions etc. for each country, but for one particular country it ended with the Basil Fawlty quote! I kid you not!!!
Nearly 23% of people in favour of the new system.
thats 23% too much in my view :P
That is freaking awesome.
The FIA will see that as 100% though
It's about to do the backflip I believe. :D it's very cool to watch.
And mine. I guess Max and Bernie and all their mates got their votes in early.
Steven, from my quick look the 4 + 4 race counting thing was 1979
no worries, would've said if it was a problem.
Thanks Jackie.
someone's had a spring clean:
http://www.formula1.com/
This is what happened to me today:
http://jp.dk/uknews/article1635498.ece
I went back at 6ish to get my stuff and the smell was pretty strong. I'm going to call again in a half hour to find out if the office is open tomorrow...
you made the news! wow.
As long as you are okay :D
Is the fisheye style camera on the shuttle?
The news was there before the firemen and police were!
oh yeah, and that ;)
Oh I'm fine - just a little thick in the head :-(
I haven't been watching too closel so I haven't seen it.
"Employees were also advised that if they feel nauseous in the next 12 hours they should contact their doctor. "
How do you know if the FIA made you nauseous or if it was the ammonia?!
Unless it's on some appendage of the ISS I guess there isn't anywhere else it can be!
Yup - it's on the docking ring I think.
The backflip is to get high resolution digital images of the shuttles underside to NASA. Just to check the condition of the tiles.
Haha :D
There is a fish eye on the docking mechanism which is used to monitor the docking operation so they may be running that now.
That's classic! My ear got on TV by the way. A few years ago my left hand got on telly too! I'm partly famous!
They are currently showing mission control. Far less pretty.
Two of the astronauts in the ISS take photographs using 400 and 800mm lenses and the manouvre is videoed
Which points system do you think we would have if Bernie proposed the 12-9-7 etc scheme and the FOTA this 'winner take all' system ???
12-9-7. Next.
Bernie works Max by remote control.
agreed.
Ferrari normally make me pretty nauseous too :-(
big question is, what next for fota?
Bernie could have suggested that the driver that uses the smallest number of tires wins the championship and it would have got through.
The shuttle is about to start the backflip. You will hear the astronauts and mission control refer to this as the roll pitch manouvre or RPM
25-15-10-6-4-2-1
Simple - makes winning more valuable and it ain't confusing!
Some of the shots taken with the 800mm lens were released last time out I think - looked superb.
Loopdy loop time :D
Hopefully a breakaway championship. Don't be surprised if Bernie is setting Max up to fail. That's what he did with Balestre to get Max elected.
Enough of the technical jargon.
Yeah but how much better will the Toad be? It'll be like Balestre to Mosley all over again :-(
Also, given that the decision is that the points system will remain to decide the winner if 2 drivers end the season on the same number of wins, you could easily have a situation where driver A with 5 wins takes out driver B also with 5 wins because driver A is ahead on points.
If Bernie is setting Max up to fail it will be so that the breakaway goes ahead and he gets a bigger slice of the pie. So instead of just working for CVC he would own a significant piece of the action.
Couldn't they have found a bit of sky with no clouds to do the RPM?
I am writing a blog post about this. Someone answer me this, if we had this system in last year, would Kubica and Alonso would of kept trying to score points is if they were mathematically eliminated from the championship after perhaps the German GP?
Yeah, great that they are encouraging drivers to fight for the win but if a driver isn’t motivated to win at almost all costs; he shouldn’t be in the car. We’ve had two championships decided by one point. Why on earth does this need to be changed? There are so many other problems this sport faces, why this? To distract us? To get headlines? To me this is kind of like changing the drapes on the Titanic.
ing wanted a win. alonso would've kept trying.
Alonso wanted to win too. He has to beat Mclaren to be a WDC again to prove Ron Wrong...
also true.
drivers will always fight.
The tranquility of space has calmed me down after my FIA rantings I recommend it.
The more I think about this the more I think Bernie is setting Max up. Apart from the insanity of the scoring system we have this two tier championship situation which came out of the ether. The big teams are not goin to suddenly live on a $30 million budget and they are not about to let themselves be blown away by teams spending a fraction of the amount operating to a different set of rules. Bernie has spent three decades using Max's stupidity to put him into important positions. Now I think he is going to use Max's stupidity to take his toys away.
Comms seem to be a problem with the ISS at the moment...
tell the to stop streaming the video for a bit.
The last shuttle mission ran into comms problems and they have just had the same thing again. NASA has been putting vehicles this high up for 40 years you would have thought by now that they could have comms working 100% of the time.
:D
Maybe they should get Kathi to host their Skype.
Docking due in about 45 minutes.
I love the thought of sidepodcast and the ISS using the same audio systems.
The fish eye is the shuttle docking ring showig the ISS.
what kind of comms do they have? i'm guessing those argos walkie talkies wouldnt do the job
The docking ring is just behind the cabin at the front section of the cargo bay.
Bugger ... just found out that the office is open tomorrow! (They tested it and all is OK...)
And I really fancied working from home too...
Way to technical a question for me but I do know they have a radio ham system up there butnot as there primary system. You will hear them frequently change the comms system they are using.
I think the one who got thrown underneath the bus today was FOTA. WMSC only really agreed to the things the affect the teams, not things that affect FOM/FIA. A one way street.
But if Bernie is in with FOTA and trying to give them grounds for a breakaway.... Or is outside FOTA and trying to provoke a breakaway so that he can then go to them and say he has contracts with broadcasters and circuits which the FIA can't meet but he will share with them for a small consideration...
Sometimes I think I am too devious for my own good and all these years of following F1 has corrupted my brain.
This was just a matter of time really. Bernie has been aching to get a lever into FOTA (he even offered to buy into Gonda) but failed. So he turned to his old pal Max and said "Remember how I didn't force you to resign...?"
This just in:
WRC is boring
WTCC will have no manufacturers by the end of the year
NASCAR is stupid
IndyCar is a farce
F1 is disappearing up it's own orifice
Ah well ... looks like MotoGP might have to be my focus this year...
Communication is via a pair of geostationary satellites. I'm guessing that at least one will be able to view the shuttle at any particular time.
It is starting to look shaky as well.
wha?
because of one rule change?
Ill still love F1 despite the bosses being jokes. I'm just astounded they felt this was the way forward
Nope...
Because of the stewards, Max, Bernie, Ferrari, fuglygate and stupid rules.
We are definitely starting into a new era and it looks to me right now that it's going to be a bad one...
F1 is certainly into one of its dumber phases.
I don't know how I'm going to listen to MWM at work this week ... I am going to be too angry to concentrate!!!
It is still completely beyond me how so many people can make so many terrible decisions and convince themselves they are right when everyone else is telling them they are wrong.
I'd say this is equivalent to the University Challenge fiasco. We will all know who the real champion is, he'll be the one with the most points at the end of the season. What we need now is a season with 17 different winners.
Because all of this is getting Bernie headlines which means he makes more dollars.
Are you talking about F1 or the Government? ;)
This may well be the straw that broke the camel's back.
The only saving grace is that my favourite driver adopts the 'Ricky Bobby' approach - "If you ain't first, you're last!"
Damn, Shuttle and ISS over Europe, a sighting would have been pretty spectacular.
Today I have spoken to people about F1, the Government, the Catholic Church and Huddersfield Students Union.
It could apply to any one of them.
Damn missed a sighting by ten minutes
http://www.spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings/index.html
There are sightings over my part of Scotland every day until a week on Friday. So any part of England should have the same sightings for slightly longer
Saturday at 7:20 pm there is a 5 minute sighting. Can't miss that.
And now for something completely different:
http://technology.todaysbigthing.com/2009/03/17
A man playing music with lightning!
Yes, but seeing the ISS and the shuttle so close to one another would have been interesting.
I've managed to catch the ISS at random a few times - just looked up and spotted it. It is fairly distinctive - a bright star moving faster than anything else in the sky (and the"wrong way" compared to the actual stars and planets - and yes I know the planets go the wrong way sometimes...)
yeah. sorry, but i've heard it all before. the last person who said that to me missed out on the italian grand prix. i still point and laugh when i see him :D
This one is Five Pints certified: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GJSH5Aw3yk
This is sort of in line what I am thinking. Almost all of the manufacturers in F1 are in other motorsports categories. Do you think they ever look at Bernie and Max, look at each other and shake their heads?
That has to be faked.
I think I managed to catch a glimpse of it when it was scheduled to go over, but all I know it could be the street light.
I caught it on the last shuttle missino when they were a mile or two apart with the ISS chasing the shuttle across the sky.
:D I've already got over my phase of absolute indignation [I looked that up], and I'm getting bored of the discussion. Can the season start now please.
Nope, they just change the voltage (I think) going into it, which changes the pitch of the discharge. There is a video somewhere of a pair of them playing the super mario bros theme.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GJSH5Aw3yk
hehe. very soon:
http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/70
well found :D
sidepodspace update
Shuttle 100 feet away and 15 to 20 mintes to docking. The schedule says 10 but this is NASA.
Who knew that NASA worked on sidepodtime?
NASA TV coverage really is rubbish. I wonder if Bernie negotiated their deal.
Does the Spaceshuttle have misproportioned wings and KERS now?
It flies like a brick so the answer to the first part is yes.
On the plus side there are on-board cameras and no James Allen
NASA TV needs Murray Walker commentating. Space travel is an incredible achiement and they make it sound like ordering sandwiches.
I think I've sounded more excited ordering sandwiches to be honest.
Yes but close up shots of the ISS docking ring from 100 feet when they could get some spectacular shots of the ISS or the shuttle with the Earth in the background is like getting a close up shot of Massa's helmet. Now we can see mission control. That's just like showing us Ross Brawns left ear.
Maybe they need Tarantino slash cutting to the pilot's eyes then to the other crew with some moody music in the background.
Mika and Mika swearing at drivers without seatbelts
Gotta love Hakkinen, he always brings a smile to my face.
Tough Finnish justice.
I love the idea of being stopped and sworn at by two F1 drivers.
The shuttle is closing on the station at practically zero feet per second and they have to stop to line up. How advanced is the steering on that theing?
how cooool is that?
That's not as good as the Danish anti-speeding campaign though.
Hell Yeah!
Did ya get me voicemail for the predos?
I think NASA TV need to send a helicopter up to get side on shots of this.
And yes, 'tis true BTW!
I haven't checked yet. Will let everyone know when I do.
Poo, I still need to do that. Still not really got a clue who I'm gonna predict though!
Does the ISS have guns on it just in case of aliens? :P
Three minutes till docking
looks like i've come just in time then. :) evening everyone.
hi lou.
No I think the plan if that happen is to go and hide in the Soyuz but to leave the hatch open.
TIE fighters you mean?
hahaha
Capture confirmed.
"Capture Confirmed"
They're touching. :D
Thanks for the translation :D
They are locked together but still have to hard dock which completes the seal between them.
am thinking i've missed quite a bit today. shall start reading through comments methinks.
See ya next week then ;-)
Good luck.
oh.... that many?
500+
...
...
wow
Missed nothing, really, just some junk about the points system
And some mad budget caps.
It took me an hour and a half on the train with my iPod Touch!
Go on Autosport and then get real angry.....500 comments in 5 minutes, sorted :P
Your touch screen will be nackered.
It has a definite skid mark on it now!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tprMEs-zfQA
The Mother of All Funk Chords. The Mother of all that is musically awesome!
Ewwwww....
Like my DS, the touch screen has a feint groove down the centre from a darts game I used to have.
I can't believe they are still showing the Honda Impossible Dream advert with the F1 car in.
Bloody good advert though.
Well Brawn GP shows that dreams sometimes come true - isn't that right, Lou?
i was literally just tweeted, and told the car wasn't in it?
It mades me a sad panda whenever I see the F1 car bit, even through Brawn kept the team going. Bit wierd really but meh. :P
I'm just happy to see it back, really.
This one? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=697177106372116286
Unbelievable!
Only for a couple of seconds after the 60s F1 car but before the boat.
Just saw it on 4 and it was still there.
Oh yeah, there's some roads from NZ in it too :-D
Me too, it's awesome. I love that song.
Heston Blumenthal seems to be popular tonight.
He was just at the Ambrosia rice factory and with someone whose job is to taste rice pudding. Imagine getting paid for eating pudding. How tough can that be?
That sausage and mash desert is freaking genius.
nasa tv is ace at the moment btw, some gorgeous exterior shots.
I can't make up my mind if he is a genius or crazy. Liquid nitrogen o make frozen peas from puree?
the modern f1 car?
That is the kind of stuff they should have been showing during docking.
A little from column A, a little from column B.
Is his restaurant still closed?
I know, right?
No idea
Yeah, it's the Honda from before the Earth Dreams stuff. 2006?
With all the WMSC stuff and the shuttle stuff happening today, I now have a song going through my head.
Monty Python's Galaxy Song... Especially the last 2 lines.
"And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."
It seems... relevent...
Think it's reopened now, they never worked out where the problems came from. Apparently because he has so many unusual ingredients he sends food for safety tests all the time so it's even stranger that something got through the net.
'05 BAR I think...
cool, cheers.
Very appropriate.
Man I love that Kutiman song I posted earlier - there's something so cool about it!
Could well be actually.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQu_RRLbVDA
Ate at both the Hinds Head and the Fat Duck last year.
Going back to the Hinds Head again - imo it was better than the Fat Duck. It was proper british food. Unlike a lot of posh food places, I was full when I left. :D
And the chocolates they served with the coffee... oh... my... god! *drools*
http://twitter.com/vardra/statuses/1344897568
:D
Lucky b****** :D
language squire ;)
Hinds Head wasn't that expensive - I'm used to london prices and it was slightly under that.
It is a 40 minute drive from here though so that balanced it out.
For 2 people, 3 courses each, and a couple of drinks each *2 alcoholic, 2 not* is was under £90
thats amazing :D
hehe :)
sorry, got a bit carried away :D
Not too bad really then.
understandably :D
heh
Night all... :-)
night buddy.
au revoir monsieur gavin
It was cheaper than many meals we've had in London at good resturants.
Fat Duck however was another matter. Well in excess of £300 - and with a different wine with each course, the other half was most indelicately clattered by the end of it. :D
Right - now to watch that Heston thing he did today. :D
Night.
My housemate does food and nutrition at Uni and he's been trying to get a booking for a while, apparently there is a pretty big waiting list.
Off too, bye!
see ya r.g.
Night RG
Anyone know what's going on in the ISS? I've never seen astronauts looking so bored!
5 minutes of leak checks to go then the hatches open.
5 minutes of nothing
Speaking of which....
just to warn you all i think my next comment may be pretty long....
I could do it during the Easter Hols... not that i'm saying i will do it.
i think we will be picking out places where it can be improved and not necessarily how awful we think it is.
WOW!!!
i don't like the idea of awarding wins at all, and i don't rate that explanation at all.
You are kidding me?!
i feel a little better about it now... but yeah... i still don't really like it.
:D
I love that advert, but now when i watch it i just remember all the heartbreak they have caused. thank god it's all good now though.
Don't jinx it!! :P
yep that's it :)
Night Gavin & RG
my god there really were a load of comments.... i've realised that while catching up you guys were also making new comments :)
drumroll........
it's in moderation...
:D
:D
:D
I booked 3 months in advance. Try the web site every monday to see if you can get a booking through that.
It really isn't cheap though. It's a really good and fun experience though. Having the sorbet made at your table in liquid nitrogen is mental. :D
*prepares*
haha .. oops sorry for laughing, it's just ironic
I got it.
:)
i just heard "will", anyone else?
no it's an 'if you are stuck for someone to do it...'
I love a volunteer.
i can't actually stress enough how much i like that video.. and how much i really want to try that... but i wouldn't know where to start.
Right, I've got a film to watch. Night all!
Nght Chris
night :)
night
we're stuck.
g'night
looks like you have plenty of volunteers in the wiki ;)
http://wiki.sidepodcast.com/page/Future+Hosts
i'll see nearer the time...
There are only two a Ollie (apparently) whatever that means. There are six shows in a series so another 3 or 4 hosts needed.
not enough for the whole series? we are currently x2 short.
and Ollie not a Ollie
Just saw there's a Watchmen wiki... hehehe. :)
i prefer "a ollie" :)
I managed to get a full refund on my proof reading course. :)
:D
:D
:D
One for the management.
Did I post a comment with a link for http://www.spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings/index.html at stupid o'clock this morning. I am sure I did but I can't find it now. My own fault for trying to write at that time but at least I got quite a bit done.
That's just amazing. I'm assuming you know what a tilt-shift lens is and does?
Ah go on go on it is St Patrick's day after all :D I'll sign
I meant http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/ not the NASA link. Damn copy and paste ain't working.
searching....
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2009/03/17/daily-17th-march-2009/#comment-217147
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2009/03/15/live-weve-moved-heaven-and-earth-to-make-this-show/#comment-215559
that's all we got recently?
searching...
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2009/03/14/take-a-wild-guess/#comment-216596
yes :D
Sorry can you check my previous comment.
Thanks. No wonder I couldn't find it. Never thought to look in that thread.
I thought my brain was playing tricks.
Jordan W has fropioed a video he made:
http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/f1-2006-chinese-gp-review-wmv
What's the difference between dropioed and fropioed?
twit appear to be re-streaming nasa:
http://live.twit.tv/
am confused!
If anyones watching the NASA feed at the moment...it has to be said....I LOVE THAT GUYS HAIR
See the dictionary.
Stomps foot like a two year old. Have just signed out of the wiki
that is one heck of a database.
His name is Sandra.
It's very scary when you start digging into it.
Hahaha! That's cute. ;)
I've only seen said person from behind....is it a woman?
Yes
ah righto, she looks like shes having fun hanging like a bat
Even the list of circuits where drivers have been killed is unbelievably long. Some of the srticles are fantastic.
There is no up or down in space. Must make some thngs very wierd. How do they give each other driections to find anything?
we should come back to that once the season is under way. it'll likely get lost in a sea of pre-season hype if we do anything with it now, but it looks like it deserves some promotion.
never heard of it before.
that is very true, its all relative i guess.
i was talking to a friend earlier about how when we hang upsidedown the blood goes to our heads, but they cant hang 'upside down' so it all gets very confusing!
Me neither
They finally opened the hatch and the shuttle crew is moving into the ISS.
is the camera in the ISS or in the shuttle?
ISS
is she the person who dropped the tool kit?
No that was Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper
flibster. it's probably a tech issue. but you're commenting on some random posts?
Again?
*sigh*
lclt?
and we're replying without checking the thread. Sorry
Desktop Doohicky...
Restarted - should be working now...
very odd.
can you try the nikon comments again?
I had it happen on sunday as well.
Restarted the DD and it worked fine after that - until today.
in lclt, i could see how it might happen, but i've no idea why dd would pick yesterday's thread like that.
nah, i do it too. new code soon :)
I had it chosing ones from the 10th and 11th on sunday... :D
it was fine - then went doolally - Doolally Desktop Doohicky. ;)
i need a bigger smiley!
In the NASA press conference, they've just said the bat was clinging onto the external tank at lift-off, but no one has seen it since.
Flamegrilled bat?
Actually, bat doesn't taste too bad.
I read something after the launch where someone fron NASA said this is not the first time a bat has attached itself to the shuttle.
The also had a turkey vulture fly head on into it while it was on the pad. I know some animals have poor eyesite but surely anything that flies should be able to see a space shuttle before it hits it.
LOL!
The shuttle is not exactly a subtle thing. Especially with it's orange fuel tank. :D
I believe I ranted about something similar in my first comment but that was about bernies's medals and this is just bernie's medals light and I still say that this or the medal system does not reward consistency and another thing what is stopping a team who has the title wrapped up from taking it easy for the rest of the season. I wonder if this is just a way for the P.T.B's to try and get ferrari a drivers title especially seeing that the Mclaren seems to be struggling a bit so far.
I like that point system and think they should have added a point for pole and a point for fastest lap.
Does budget cap include driver salaries? I'm too lazy to look it up.
one can only hope.
I don't think Bernie has told even Max yet.
I don't think Bernie has finished thinking about how much further he can really fluff this all up
Given that they are making up rules for this season a few days before it starts how can anyone work to a budget cap when the rules can be changed within spitting distance of the start ofthe season.
sidepodspace / animal update
The bat that was on the shuttle external fuel tank during the launch had a broken wing.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts119/launchbat.html
Well, he had a good send-off in style
There is a high resolutlion picture of the bat. I magnified it as much as I could and eventually saw a black dot.
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/319337main_STS-119BatLiftoff.jpg
I have heard of people getting their ashes put into a firework rocket but this is taking things a bit further.
Maybe the medal idea was just a red herring, you know suggest something so stupid (he probably didn't want it in the first place) it gets people all riled up then the fia announce this whacked out idea and we all say I could be worse and then bernie gets what he really wanted was a drivers title won on wins. I could be wrong it has happened before.
You think that had anything to do with Alain Prost saying that the ferrari 'handled worse than a truck'
Dictator's usually don't resign, what you need is a military invasion to oust him or Don Corleone to make him an offer he can't refuse.
Just realized now - Hamilton chasing 5th for the title can still happen this year.
Imagine this - entering the final round, we have this scoreline:
Hamilton - 90 (6 wins)
Massa - 83 (5 wins)
Massa would need to win in Abu Dhabi to have any chance of winning the title. Hamilton, meanwhile, would only need 5th because with him and Massa tied on wins, they go to the points. Massa's win would bring him to 93; Hamilton would just need 4 points to win the title on points - which is 5th place.
Which just makes this current system even more stupid - it doesn't even fully remove the element of "playing it safe".
Any situation that could happen before can still happen. This system does not eliminate any existing possibility it just creates new ways to ruin things.
...And confused the bloody heck out of us!