Late again, oh well, I agree with Lou who said the day only starts when you wake up anyway. That should get me out of it this time. There seemed to be an entire discussion going on yesterday about ways for "me" to conceal his identity in public, including dressing up as a giant panda, as the Stig, and bizarrely, as Batman. Please feel free to continue this discussion, as it does make me chuckle. However, in Formula 1 news:

  • Two tests got underway yesterday. Ferrari were at the Algarve, although Massa only did a couple of hours running before retiring - feeling ill. Poor lad. At Jerez, Buemi was the star again, only this time for Red Bull. When are we going to be able to compare the cars a bit better?
  • Hockenheim has called for government help, are they likely to get it? And South Africa has said there's no way they'll be ready for F1 before 2011. Can Bernie wait, or will he move on?
  • The Trulliometer has swung upwards with the Italian saying that he's going to get a win with Toyota this year. His reasoning? He can just feel it. How long before we get the opposite from him though?

More testing will continue today, so we'll be keeping our eye out for any pictures of those 2009 spec wings. Let us know if you find any, and if you've got anything else to share, please feel free.

165 responses

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 09:37

    So quiet... :-/

  • me16/12/2008 at 10:13

    yay, daily post.

    So quiet… :-/

    morning.

    to answer your earlier question. we're experimenting with caching servers to speed up sidepodcast. as you're in a different part of the world to lou, the header comes from an alternate server to the one the uk is looking at, thus you'll see it at a different time.

    all content is still located in california, we're just testing the header. comments and posts will still update simultaneously. we just forgot to write one at midnight :)

  • Dank16/12/2008 at 10:21

    Bestest header yet - well, the most subtle one anyway!

    Off-topic: can anybody with an Xbox 360 recommend me any half-decent driving games? Colin McRae DiRT? Forza 2?

    The awfully named 'Zavvi' are flogging Xbox 360s for just under £100 at the moment and I was planning on buying one in preparation for the F1 game Codemasters are due to release next year.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 10:34

    Speaking of Colin McRae,

    Subaru is pulling out of the WRC. David Richards has said that Prodrive will NOT participate in the WRC in 2009, but will be back in 2010.

    This comes a day after Suzuki announced their pullout from the WRC. That leaves Citroen and Ford as the only major manufacturers in the WRC.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 10:37

    Subaru is pulling out of the WRC. David Richards has said that Prodrive will NOT participate in the WRC in 2009, but will be back in 2010.

    Given that, I've lessened my chances to see Prodrive buy the Honda franchise. Why? Well, as it is, David Richards just has too many other problems to deal with.

  • Keith Collantine16/12/2008 at 10:39

    On Trulli, does his mood vary with the quality of vineyard's vintage? I think we need to do some drinking and make graphs...

  • Flibster16/12/2008 at 10:45

    That Williams F1 documentary is pretty good. I've got the 1993 McLaren Series around somewhere and one about Benetton.

    It also looks like the WRC is going to be severly depleted next year. Seat, Prodrive.... Who's next?

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 10:50

    It also looks like the WRC is going to be severly depleted next year. Seat, Prodrive…. Who’s next?

    Well, Seat is from the WTCC, and it looks like they're staying for next year. I think you meant Suzuki?

    Well, since you mentioned Seat, WTCC is faring pretty well... well, so far, anyway. No manufacturer pullouts from them so far. But then again, there's only 4 manufacturers there - BMW, Seat, Chevrolet, and Honda.

  • Dan Brunell16/12/2008 at 11:02

    Given that, I’ve lessened my chances to see Prodrive buy the Honda franchise. Why? Well, as it is, David Richards just has too many other problems to deal with.

    OK if Richards out of the running who else is going to buy Honda? Why do I feel the rope around Honda's neck getting tighter?

    Off-topic: can anybody with an Xbox 360 recommend me any half-decent driving games? Colin McRae DiRT? Forza 2?

    Too bad you don't have a PS3, then I would demand you buy GT5 Prologue plus some other stuff.

    DiRT and its' street counterpart GRiD are OK. The driving engine stinks and not really realistic but they are fun. You get to explore a lot of different types of motoring disciplines and get to race some neat tracks. I personally didn't like the artificial grittiness of them. However, they do have a decent damage engine and is fun to play with friends.

    I actually picked up the new MotoGP game last night. Left a lot to be desired but a hell of a lot better than any F1 game that has been around the last five years. I love the MotoGP calander with Laguna Seca, the new Indy road course, Brno, Jerez, and some familiar F1 tracks. Worth buying used in a few months to give it a try. I won't mention the NASCAR game because well... its' NASCAR.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 11:09

    OK if Richards out of the running who else is going to buy Honda? Why do I feel the rope around Honda’s neck getting tighter?

    I'm still giving Richards a 50-50 chance. Barring that, I say the Arabs will buy it and leave Brawn to run it.

  • me16/12/2008 at 11:13

    On Trulli, does his mood vary with the quality of vineyard’s vintage?

    seems to be related to quantity, more than quality :)

    I think we need to do some drinking and make graphs…

    excellent idea. i think we have some drinking games planned for sunday (non-alcoholic ones for the youngsters of course).

  • me16/12/2008 at 11:13

    I’m still giving Richards a 50-50 chance. Barring that, I say the Arabs will buy it and leave Brawn to run it.

    what about fry?

  • Flibster16/12/2008 at 11:21

    me: 16/12/2008 at 11:13

    I’m still giving Richards a 50-50 chance. Barring that, I say the Arabs will buy it and leave Brawn to run it.

    what about fry?

    Out on his arse hopefully.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 11:23

    Out on his arse hopefully.

    Agreed. I still think it was Fry's way of running things that began Honda's fall from grace.

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 11:37

    Journeyer said:

    Speaking of Colin McRae,

    Subaru is pulling out of the WRC. David Richards has said that Prodrive will NOT participate in the WRC in 2009, but will be back in 2010.

    This comes a day after Suzuki announced their pullout from the WRC. That leaves Citroen and Ford as the only major manufacturers in the WRC.

    Bugger... It's a bad time to be a Motorsport fan right now :-(

    Thing is though, Subaru have been also-rans for a long time and the FIA changed the rules to the S2000 format, so I guess we should have seen this one coming ...

  • Dank16/12/2008 at 11:38

    Time to get Loeb into F1! Someone please do it!

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 11:40

    Thing is though, Subaru have been also-rans for a long time and the FIA changed the rules to the S2000 format, so I guess we should have seen this one coming …

    But unlike Honda's withdrawal from F1, which saw us lose 1 of 6 manufacturers, the WRC have already lost 2 of 4 manufacturers, which is a lot more dangerous in its impact.

    Time to get Loeb into F1! Someone please do it!

    Which team will pull him in at this point? I see RBR doing it (dropping Webber in the process), for obvious sponsorship reasons. A French motorsport legend driving a Renault-powered car. Wow.

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 11:44

    Off-topic: can anybody with an Xbox 360 recommend me any half-decent driving games? Colin McRae DiRT? Forza 2?

    I can help you there! :D From what I know:

    Forza Motorsport 2

    Project Gotham Racing 4

    Race Driver GRID

    DiRT

    Need For Speed Most Wanted

    Test Drive Unlimited

    Midnight Club: Los Angeles

    SBK 08

    Burnout Paradise

    Also, watch for Race Pro coming out - it's pretty much a mix of two PC racers, GTR Evolution and Race 07, rolled into one for the 360 and it looks awesome! :D There's DiRT 2 on it's way as well.

    And of course there's the Codemasters F1 game ;)

  • Dank16/12/2008 at 11:49

    Which team will pull him in at this point? I see RBR doing it (dropping Webber in the process), for obvious sponsorship reasons. A French motorsport legend driving a Renault-powered car. Wow.

    I'll eat my hat if that ever happens. In fact, I'd eat several thousand hats!

    I can help you there!

    Muchos gracias amigo!

    Unfortunately my local Zavvi store doesn't have any Xbox 360s for sale at the moment as folk have been buying them in their droves this morning. Dagnabit!

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 11:49

    And of course there’s the Codemasters F1 game

    Will they release it on all platforms (i.e. PS3, PSP, XBOX360, Wii)?

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 11:50

    Unfortunately my local Zavvi store doesn’t have any Xbox 360s for sale at the moment as folk have been buying them in their droves this morning. Dagnabit!

    Sometimes you'd think we're not in a recession when you see things like that happen.

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 11:59

    Will they release it on all platforms (i.e. PS3, PSP, XBOX360, Wii)?

    As far as I know it's PS3 and 360.

  • Flibster16/12/2008 at 12:13

    Oh dear...

    The S2000 spec doesn't sound that good for rallying.

    FIA specifications include the following:

    Derived from production model, of which 2500 have been produced in the past year

    Maximum of 2 liter (2000 cc) displacement

    Normal Aspiration, 8500 rpm maximum for 4 cylinders, 8750 rpm maximum for 5 cylinders, 9000 rpm maximum for 6 cylinders.

    All wheel drive is permitted in rally cars, but not in touring cars.

    6-speed sequential gearbox (Control specification), or 5-speed MT gearbox retaining original gear ratios.

    Front and rear McPherson suspension

    No electronic driver aids

    Must be for sale at a maximum price of €168,000.

    Can we have Group B back again?

  • Dirty Scarab16/12/2008 at 13:22

    OK if Richards out of the running who else is going to buy Honda? Why do I feel the rope around Honda’s neck getting tighter?

    A French manufacturer called PSA have been linked to the list of possible buyers. They make Citroen and Peugeot cars, I think.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 13:24

    A French manufacturer called PSA have been linked to the list of possible buyers. They make Citroen and Peugeot cars, I think.

    That's right, PSA make Citroens and Peugeots. But they have already both publicly and privately denied the rumors.

  • lou16/12/2008 at 13:25

    Off-topic: can anybody with an Xbox 360 recommend me any half-decent driving games? Colin McRae DiRT? Forza 2?

    a few of my friends love the game that Scott mentioned earlier. - Race driver GRID. Apparently it's brilliant :)

  • Dirty Scarab16/12/2008 at 13:27

    Off-topic: can anybody with an Xbox 360 recommend me any half-decent driving games? Colin McRae DiRT? Forza 2?

    I've got Forza 2 for xbox 360. There's a massive list of cars and the gameplay is great. The only niggle is that there isn't a whole lot of circuits, but you still get to drive on Silverstone GP circuit... :)

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 13:30

    Flibster said:

    Oh dear…

    The S2000 spec doesn’t sound that good for rallying.

    Can we have Group B back again?

    I disagree. I just went to an S2000-spec Rally and I reckon the cars look and sound brilliant.

    Look, Group B was great fun but stupid and dangerous. We can't have cars like that running rallies anymore. Group A and the WRC have run their course and nobody wants to make cars like that anymore. It's time for a change and at least under these rules we have at least four confirmed manufacturers and the possibility of many more :-)

    That’s right, PSA make Citroens and Peugeots. But they have already both publicly and privately denied the rumors.

    If they denied it, it must be true then ;-)

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 13:35

    a few of my friends love the game that Scott mentioned earlier. - Race driver GRID. Apparently it’s brilliant

    Indeed it is! If you're not one for all the tuning side of cars and racing and just want a pure racing experience and just get in and go, GRID is the best. It is more of an arcade racer than a sim but the graphics are mind-blowing. Plus the online aspect is amazing, and you can have some truly fantastic races. So long as some of the idiots online don't take you out at the first corner.

    They recently released a long overdue downloadable pack of cars including a McLaren F1 GTR :D

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 13:39

    I disagree. I just went to an S2000-spec Rally and I reckon the cars look and sound brilliant.

    Well, Loeb said he'd retire if they switch to S2000, and as a leading driver, he'd probably know what he was talking about.

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 13:53

    Journeyer said:

    I disagree. I just went to an S2000-spec Rally and I reckon the cars look and sound brilliant.

    Well, Loeb said he’d retire if they switch to S2000, and as a leading driver, he’d probably know what he was talking about.

    You know, I'm not sure why he said that. Perhaps he thought they would be 2WD-only or perhaps he just prefers WRC spec cars.

    If Loeb left the WRC that would be good because there is nobody else who can match him. Frankly, rallying is all about the cars for me so more manufacturers would be a good thing.

    This change in the rules is more necessary than those for F1 because we don't have anyone that wants to make a WRC-spec car anymore. Give the S2000's a chance. I promise you, they're much better than they sound on paper :-D

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 14:10

    Give the S2000’s a chance. I promise you, they’re much better than they sound on paper

    Mind you, wasn't that what we said about the 2009 F1 regs? Look where we've ended up so far. :O

  • me16/12/2008 at 14:11

    Mind you, wasn’t that what we said about the 2009 F1 regs? Look where we’ve ended up so far. :O

    ha!

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 14:33

    Given that, I’ve lessened my chances to see Prodrive buy the Honda franchise. Why? Well, as it is, David Richards just has too many other problems to deal with.

    I wouldn't make any connection between the rally team and Honda. Prodrive has a ridiculous number of projects on the go at any time and Richards juggles car suppliers better than anyone. I saw a list ofthe programs he was running at one time and it ran to something like 15 different manufacturers.

    If there is a business case for him doing F1 regardless of the rally team he will do it.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 14:35

    If there is a business case for him doing F1 regardless of the rally team he will do it.

    But setting up TWO teams at the same time in two major championships isn't easy. Also, he'll need to find fundings for both projects now, and he won't readily have that type of money. He'll need to find at least 2 or 3 big players to fund both of them.

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 14:44

    Journeyer said:

    Give the S2000’s a chance. I promise you, they’re much better than they sound on paper

    Mind you, wasn’t that what we said about the 2009 F1 regs? Look where we’ve ended up so far. :O

    The difference is an S2000 car doesn't look like a picnic table on wheels!

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 14:45

    Well, Loeb said he’d retire if they switch to S2000, and as a leading driver, he’d probably know what he was talking about.

    He is speaking about things from the point of view of someone who has had a car advantage for a few seasons and doesn't want to lose it. His comment is identical to Alonso's comment about standard engines. It is a certainty neither of them will retire for the reasons given.

  • me16/12/2008 at 14:47

    He is speaking about things from the point of view of someone who has had a car advantage for a few seasons and doesn’t want to lose it. His comment is identical to Alonso’s comment about standard engines. It is a certainty neither of them will retire for the reasons given.

    alonso's had an engine advantage?

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 14:50

    He is speaking about things from the point of view of someone who has had a car advantage for a few seasons and doesn’t want to lose it. His comment is identical to Alonso’s comment about standard engines. It is a certainty neither of them will retire for the reasons given.

    I disagree here. I actually think Loeb WILL leave if WRC makes the switch. He has nothing else to prove. Why take a risk on something he doesn't really support?

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 14:50

    nothing left to prove, rather. he's already won everything there is to win.

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 14:51

    But setting up TWO teams at the same time in two major championships isn’t easy. Also, he’ll need to find fundings for both projects now, and he won’t readily have that type of money. He’ll need to find at least 2 or 3 big players to fund both of them.

    He has a rally team set up. All he has to do is design a new car. Richards has no hands on involvement in the rally team. He handed responsibility for it to Dave Lapworth and when Lapworth was pulled out to set up the abortive F1 team someone else was given the responsibility for the rally team.

    Two groups have already approached Richards to run the Honda team if they put a bid together. One is the Magma group which is is run by Martin Leach ex of Ford and the other is an Arab consortium.

    Dave Richards will do F1 if there is profit in it as he did both times before.

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 14:54

    alonso’s had an engine advantage?

    No but he may next year since Renault have been given a free upgrade which won't be checked before it races

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 14:56

    nothing left to prove, rather. he’s already won everything there is to win.

    So has Valentino Rossi but he is still racing and he has won more championships than Loeb.

  • me16/12/2008 at 14:57

    So has Valentino Rossi but he is still racing and he has won more championships than Loeb.

    he wasn't fast enough on four wheels though, limits his choices somewhat. loeb doesn't have that issue does he?

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 14:57

    So has Valentino Rossi but he is still racing and he has won more championships than Loeb.

    But that's because he likes the current regs as they are. also, motogp have been more attentive to rossi's needs, even allowing him to switch to bridgestones even though his teammate was on michelins. no such case for loeb.

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 15:03

    he wasn’t fast enough on four wheels though, limits his choices somewhat. loeb doesn’t have that issue does he?

    Rossi is good in a rally car and S2000 requires a lot less specialist technical knowledge and set up than WRCs do.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 15:06

    Rossi is good in a rally car and S2000 requires a lot less specialist technical knowledge and set up than WRCs do.

    which is probably why loeb doesn't like it. maybe he thinks it unneccessarily dumbs down the sport?

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 15:14

    Journeyer said:

    Rossi is good in a rally car and S2000 requires a lot less specialist technical knowledge and set up than WRCs do.

    which is probably why loeb doesn’t like it. maybe he thinks it unneccessarily dumbs down the sport?

    I disagree again.

    You know, there is a lot of snobbery against the S2000 cars which I think is based on a technical basis - E.G. if the cars don't have loads of grunt, complicated electronics and are so specialised then they must be worse :-(

    The S2000 cars are NOT dumbing down rallying - the same driving techniques to be quick are required and the same technical know-how is required to make sure the car is set up right. Sure the cars are less complicated, but most of the stuff lost makes little difference to what you see on the rally stage.

    But switching to S2000's doesn't mean that the sport will be dumbed down - look at the difference between the current BTCC/WTCC and the old Super Touring Cars - less technical and complicated but just as good to race/watch.

    Just wait and see - S2000's will revolutionise rallying and take the sport back to the golden days of pre-Group B where the drivers were fast and the cars road-relevant and more 'elegant' :-)

  • me16/12/2008 at 15:16

    The S2000 cars are NOT dumbing down rallying - the same driving techniques to be quick are required and the same technical know-how is required to make sure the car is set up right. Sure the cars are less complicated, but most of the stuff lost makes little difference to what you see on the rally stage.

    question then, from someone who knows nothing about rallying.

    how does the introduction of s2000 compare to nascar's move to CoT?

  • lou16/12/2008 at 15:17

    i think we have some drinking games planned for sunday (non-alcoholic ones for the youngsters of course).

    Do i count as a youngster?

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 15:17

    The S2000 cars are NOT dumbing down rallying - the same driving techniques to be quick are required and the same technical know-how is required to make sure the car is set up right. Sure the cars are less complicated, but most of the stuff lost makes little difference to what you see on the rally stage.

    i'm not talking about racing talent - that will definitely still be there. i'm talking about the lack of technology, which is what racing has more or less been about in the last 2 decades. motorsport has taken that step to be the proving ground of new technologies, and that's what drivers of today have gotten used to. for them, it's like taking a step backwards, and that's why they don't like it.

    let's remember, just because we're trying to take a step back doesn't mean it'll go back to the past as we remembered it.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 15:17

    lou: 16/12/2008 at 15:17

    i think we have some drinking games planned for sunday (non-alcoholic ones for the youngsters of course).

    Do i count as a youngster?

    I'm a teetotaler. :D

  • me16/12/2008 at 15:17

    Do i count as a youngster?

    are you legally allowed to drink al-ki-hol in your country of residence?

  • me16/12/2008 at 15:18

    I’m a teetotaler.

    another one? this party's gonna be a riot!

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 15:18

    which is probably why loeb doesn’t like it. maybe he thinks it unneccessarily dumbs down the sport?

    Every time anyone has ever suggested anything that takes the performance level of cars down the top drivers complain about it but I have never known one to actually retire even though over the years many have threatened it.

    Being quick in an F1 test is a long way from being an F1 driver. There are a lot of drivers give n the time in testing who can put in a few really quick laps but doing it during a GP weekend with the time pressures is a whole different matter. I would like to see Loeb try F1 but regardless of the rules in rallying he will always have a better chance to win in that than in F1. I wonder how he would feel after two seasons in a mif-grid F1 team when regardless how well he drove he had no chance of winning a single race.

  • lou16/12/2008 at 15:20

    are you legally allowed to drink al-ki-hol in your country of residence?

    well... legally i am at home... :P

  • me16/12/2008 at 15:20

    well… legally i am at home…

    :D

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 15:20

    al-ki-hol. niiiiice.... :P

    another one? this party’s gonna be a riot!

    don't worry. the party will be at 5 AM my time. i'll be as good as drunk, given my sleepy state. :P

    Every time anyone has ever suggested anything that takes the performance level of cars down the top drivers complain about it but I have never known one to actually retire even though over the years many have threatened it.

    well, prost's retirement was somewhat related to the banning of TC and electronics. does that count? and again, there's that factor of loeb having nothing left to prove.

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 15:21

    well… legally i am at home…

    I guess you can drink then so long as you don't get drunk, smash the place up and blame sidepodcast.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 15:22

    I guess you can drink then so long as you don’t get drunk, smash the place up and blame sidepodcast.

    :D WAHAHAHA! that's hilarious!!! :P

  • lou16/12/2008 at 15:22

    As far as I know it’s PS3 and 360.

    won't it be out on PC too?

  • lou16/12/2008 at 15:25

    I guess you can drink then so long as you don’t get drunk, smash the place up and blame sidepodcast.

    hahaha XD isn't that more likely to be 'me' if he is planning on drinking and doing the live streaming? :P

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 15:25

    well, prost’s retirement was somewhat related to the banning of TC and electronics. does that count? and again, there’s that factor of loeb having nothing left to prove.

    The year Prost went to Williams was the year after a lot of technology was taken out of the cars. Mansell's Williams the year before had active suspension etc and a lot of people consider that the most technically advanced car ever. At the end of 93 Senna went to Williams so Prost wouldn't stay there. There was no point going to McLaren because they were in a mess which was why Senna had left. Ferrari had sacked him and taking on Schumacher in a team that was wrapped round him was not an appealing prospect. Regardless of any other reasons Prost quit because the only decent drive available to him was to stay at Willimas and be Senna's team mate and he had tried that before .

  • me16/12/2008 at 15:26

    hahaha XD isn’t that more likely to be ‘me’ if he is planning on drinking and doing the live streaming?

    i don't mind what you do to your own house, just try not to spill wine on the new header ;)

  • lou16/12/2008 at 15:27

    i don’t mind what you do to your own house, just try not to spill wine on the new header

    :) lol

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 15:33

    lou: 16/12/2008 at 15:22

    As far as I know it’s PS3 and 360.

    won’t it be out on PC too?

    Oh no. No PSP? If not, I have to seriously begin considering getting a PS3. Missing out on F1 2009 AND GT5 is almost a sin!

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 15:44

    Journeyer: 16/12/2008 at 15:33

    lou: 16/12/2008 at 15:22

    As far as I know it’s PS3 and 360.

    won’t it be out on PC too?

    Oh no. No PSP? If not, I have to seriously begin considering getting a PS3. Missing out on F1 2009 AND GT5 is almost a sin!

    I seem to be wrong! This is from an FAQ thread on the Codemasters forums about the game:

    1: What Formats will you be releasing the F1 Game on Home Consoles, Handhelds, and PC

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 15:45

    I should imagine the modding community will have a field day with this new f1 game :P

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 15:49

    One thing which I think should be made available is for Codemasters to release downloadable content featuring cars, tracks and data from 2007 and 2008. I'm quite sure not everyone wants to race in these new fugly aero packaged cars, or miss out on Montreal and Indy. :P

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 15:49

    I should imagine the modding community will have a field day with this new f1 game

    Indeed. Expect them to make up for the missed seasons, and try out vintage seasons as well.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 15:55

    One thing which I think should be made available is for Codemasters to release downloadable content featuring cars, tracks and data from 2007 and 2008. I’m quite sure not everyone wants to race in these new fugly aero packaged cars, or miss out on Montreal and Indy.

    That all depends on Bernie, of course. And knowing Bernie, chances are, he won't let it happen.

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 16:00

    Here's something which I bet Christine might want to take a gander at. It's the first of 12 parts of the final Champ Car race at Long Beach, which a certain Mr. Montagny took part in and finished 2nd ;)

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bk52mSlG8U

  • R.G (The Walking Northerner)16/12/2008 at 16:01

    Afternoon all.

    All well (to the northerners)

    And why is everyone trying to sneak Mr C out into the public eye, for all we know, he could already be out there, dressed as a fat geordie, actually be the mayor of Cheshire (I have a hunch thats where they live) or even be Franck Montagny in disguise.

    It all makes sense.

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 16:03

    And why is everyone trying to sneak Mr C out into the public eye, for all we know, he could already be out there, dressed as a fat geordie, actually be the mayor of Cheshire (I have a hunch thats where they live) or even be Franck Montagny in disguise.

    Why Cheshire, of all places? :-/

  • R.G (The Walking Northerner)16/12/2008 at 16:04

    Journeyer: 16/12/2008 at 16:03

    And why is everyone trying to sneak Mr C out into the public eye, for all we know, he could already be out there, dressed as a fat geordie, actually be the mayor of Cheshire (I have a hunch thats where they live) or even be Franck Montagny in disguise.

    Why Cheshire, of all places? :-/

    I don't know. My brain is a very complex piece of equipment

  • lou16/12/2008 at 16:14

    or even be Franck Montagny in disguise.

    he isn't Franck... he doesn't have a french accent ;)

  • R.G (The Walking Northerner)16/12/2008 at 16:14

    he isn’t Franck… he doesn’t have a french accent

    Which contributes the 'in disguise' part of it.

  • lou16/12/2008 at 16:16

    Which contributes the ‘in disguise’ part of it.

    hmm... i suppose he could be Franck...

  • me16/12/2008 at 16:19

    hmm… i suppose he could be Franck…

    would franck wear a panda suit to a party?

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 16:21

    me: 16/12/2008 at 16:19

    hmm… i suppose he could be Franck…

    would franck wear a panda suit to a party?

    If he did, I think Christine would just die. :P

  • lou16/12/2008 at 16:21

    would franck wear a panda suit to a party?

    if he wanted to disguise himself then...possibly ;)

  • me16/12/2008 at 16:21

    If he did, I think Christine would just die.

    how would she know it was him?

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 16:22

    how would she know it was him?

    I think she'd be able to recognised his muffled French accent. :P

  • lou16/12/2008 at 16:25

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72498

    It's nice to hear Jenson's view on the cost cutting measures, and good to see him thinking positively :D

  • R.G (The Walking Northerner)16/12/2008 at 16:27

    Soo, WRC falling apart quicker a poorly put up christmas tree.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72492

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 16:41

    hmm… i suppose he could be Franck…

    So how does he live comment when Franck is racing?

  • R.G (The Walking Northerner)16/12/2008 at 16:42

    So how does he live comment when Franck is racing?

    He hires his younger brother to do it for him.

  • lou16/12/2008 at 16:42

    So how does he live comment when Franck is racing?

    i dunno... i'm just going along with R.G's idea :P

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 16:43

    would franck wear a panda suit to a party?

    Kimi wore a gorilla suit so why not. If DC can dress as Superman on the Monaca podium why not Franck in a panda suit.

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 16:45

    Soo, WRC falling apart quicker a poorly put up christmas tree.

    "The Subaru World Rally Team has created true champions such as Colin McRae and Richard Burns" Interesting quote from Dave Richards. You could almost take it to mean that he is no fan of Petter Solberg.

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 16:50

    http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21047.html

    PSA are not buying Honda

  • Journeyer16/12/2008 at 17:00

    “The Subaru World Rally Team has created true champions such as Colin McRae and Richard Burns” Interesting quote from Dave Richards. You could almost take it to mean that he is no fan of Petter Solberg.

    To be fair to Petter, Colin and Richard are both no longer with us. Maybe a bit of a tribute to them?

    PSA are not buying Honda

    As we thought. Move on, nothing to see here.

  • lou16/12/2008 at 17:37

    PSA are not buying Honda

    :( so they weren't one of the three then..

  • Dan Brunell16/12/2008 at 17:41

    Not to interupt the conversation, but there is a new facebook game. LINK: http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=6730&uid=22534566720

    Actually, here is the post linked above:

    New game for everyone, just in time for the Holidays.

    Try to find the worse possible gift for a person in formula one, a fan of a particular team, or something that is just ironic in the world of F1.

    These have to be real items, so break out the google search and ebay listings on this one. Please post the link.

    For example:

    - A gift for Ron Dennis, how about a $200 2007 Ferrari world championship paperweight.

    LINK: http://www.ferraristore.com/e-shop.des/page,shop.flypage/product_id,14033/category_id,38/

    - A Honda watch. So let me get this straight; it will keep time the first year, get slower and slower the more you send it to the watchmakers and finally after three years it will stop working?

    LINK: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=209217179&listingid=30013865&dcaid=17902

    - A shot glass from the 2005 US Grand Prix. I never seen the cause and solution to US F1 depression in one item.

    LINK: http://cgi.ebay.com/FORMULA-1-US-GRAND-PRIX-JUNE-19-2005-SHOT-GLASS-NEW_W0QQitemZ370035039404QQihZ024QQcategoryZ3273QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

    I look forward to see what you all come up with.

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 17:48

    so they weren’t one of the three then..

    It's possible that they expressed interest and when they studied the costs involved in F1 they lost interest rapidly.

  • Jon Waldock16/12/2008 at 18:15

    http://images.itv-f1.com/ImageLibrary/51650_2.jpg

    This pic kinda sums Honda's season

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 18:26

    question then, from someone who knows nothing about rallying.

    how does the introduction of s2000 compare to nascar’s move to CoT?

    Sorry for the late reply (had to take the train home and have dinner :-D )

    The introduction of S2000 are a new set of regulations for the WRC (as no one is prepared to make a WRC spec car as it's as complex and expensive as a prototype) while the CoT is basically a template for a spec-racer series, which could happen as Dodge have pulled out, Ford are reducing input and Chevy are consolidating. In contrast, the S2000 regs will mean more manufacturers will be part of the WRC, so it's all good.

    Journeyer said:

    i’m not talking about racing talent - that will definitely still be there. i’m talking about the lack of technology, which is what racing has more or less been about in the last 2 decades. motorsport has taken that step to be the proving ground of new technologies, and that’s what drivers of today have gotten used to. for them, it’s like taking a step backwards, and that’s why they don’t like it.

    let’s remember, just because we’re trying to take a step back doesn’t mean it’ll go back to the past as we remembered it.

    Technology costs money. Car companies are run by lawyers and accountants, not the engineers. Therefore we have to ditch the technology to keep the manufacturers in Motorsports.

    Look, it's sad to see these manufacturers leave F1/WRC/ALMS/BTCC but the fact is, unless we have all these new regs and efforts to cut costs, there will be no motorsports as no one will be able to compete. If it makes the action better then it's an added bonus as well.

  • me16/12/2008 at 18:30

    In contrast, the S2000 regs will mean more manufacturers will be part of the WRC, so it’s all good.

    got ya, cheers.

    Look, it’s sad to see these manufacturers leave F1/WRC/ALMS/BTCC but the fact is, unless we have all these new regs and efforts to cut costs, there will be no motorsports as no one will be able to compete. If it makes the action better then it’s an added bonus as well.

    why are you assuming that it has to be manufactures involved in order to have some form of racing?

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 18:40

    why are you assuming that it has to be manufactures involved in order to have some form of racing?

    How would you have WRC/BTCC/WTCC without manufacturers? These series are about the cars themselves more than anything...

    Also, nobody seems to be able to make an engine without some sort of financial backing from a manufacturer to stay solvent. Look how far Cosworth dropped behind in 2006 because they were 'independent'.

    We don't need manufacturers in F1 (see the 1970's for proof), but as most people here subscribe to the fact that returning to the past may not be a good thing, then returning to the 'Garagiste' era of the 1970's where everyone except Ferrari bought a Lola chassis, modified it a bit and slapped a Cossie and a Hewland 'box on the back may not be welcome :-D

  • me16/12/2008 at 18:42

    How would you have WRC/BTCC/WTCC without manufacturers? These series are about the cars themselves more than anything…

    ok, but f1 was in your original list :)

    Also, nobody seems to be able to make an engine without some sort of financial backing from a manufacturer to stay solvent. Look how far Cosworth dropped behind in 2006 because they were ‘independent’.

    sure. but if everyone is independent...?

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 18:45

    We don’t need manufacturers in F1 (see the 1970’s for proof), but as most people here subscribe to the fact that returning to the past may not be a good thing, then returning to the ‘Garagiste’ era of the 1970’s where everyone except Ferrari bought a Lola chassis, modified it a bit and slapped a Cossie and a Hewland ‘box on the back may not be welcome

    In the 70s the vast majority of the teams designed and built their own chassis. Some teams supplied customer chassis but generally they achieved little.

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 18:52

    ok, but f1 was in your original list :)

    I went a bit off-topic though. I tend to follow everything with an engine and wheels ;-)

    Also, nobody seems to be able to make an engine without some sort of financial backing from a manufacturer to stay solvent. Look how far Cosworth dropped behind in 2006 because they were ‘independent’

    sure. but if everyone is independent…?

    They were in the 70's too. If that's what it takes for F1 to survive, then so be it. People want to see 'Great Racing' 'The Pinnacle of Technology' and 'Relevance to Road Cars' whilst at the same time we have to 'Cut costs to survive'.

    All of the above are incompatible and the fork in the road for F1 is the choice between a maximum of one or two of the above four quotations.

    The question we have to ask ourselves is "What kind of F1 do we want?"

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 18:55

    In the 70s the vast majority of the teams designed and built their own chassis.

    Not necessarily. A lot were customer-chassis or they were slightly modified and the the teams claimed them as their own. Sort of like Toro Rosso claiming their car is different to a Red Bull because of the different engine mounts and other small modifications.

    Some teams supplied customer chassis but generally they achieved little.

    I am trying to remember the last successful 'customer car'... I remember Jackie Stewart won his first world championship in a Matra MS10 and Rob Walker used to run a decent Lotus team with Stirling Moss... Anyone care to add any other successes?

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 18:58

    Honda's departure should be the final nail in the coffin of the road relevant nonsense. By walking away Honda are saying that theey can devlop road car technology more efficiently without F1. Of course anyone with any sense can work out that if you ran a manufacturer and F1 was the best way to develop the technology the last thing you would do is buy a team and incur all those costs. Instead every couple of years you recruit someone senior from the team that has most successfully developed what you are interested in and pay them stupid money to spill the secrets. You can do that easily and save 99% of the cost of running a team.

  • me16/12/2008 at 18:58

    The question we have to ask ourselves is “What kind of F1 do we want?”

    great racing, and survival. road relevance is a myth propagated by max. technology is important to me, but no many others.

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 19:00

    Not necessarily. A lot were customer-chassis or they were slightly modified and the the teams claimed them as their own. Sort of like Toro Rosso claiming their car is different to a Red Bull because of the different engine mounts and other small modifications.

    All the top teams built their own. Lotus for example did not make all the chassis break throughs by buying off the shelf. McLaren did not get the M23 or M26 off the shelf. There were a lot of customer chassis in the missle of the grid but the top teams pretty much always designed their own.

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 19:03

    Honda’s departure should be the final nail in the coffin of the road relevant nonsense. By walking away Honda are saying that theey can devlop road car technology more efficiently without F1.

    With such restrictive regulations and so much cost cutting, it is hard to see where the innovation can come from that could develop new technology that can be fed down to the road cars. Even KERS is very different to the hybrid technologies that are being developed.

    We need more open regulations if we want a 'road relevant' series. In truth, race cars are so far apart from road cars these days that there is no series where this applies anymore :-(

  • me16/12/2008 at 19:06

    We need more open regulations if we want a ‘road relevant’ series.

    be we don't want that do we?

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)16/12/2008 at 19:11

    me said:

    We need more open regulations if we want a ‘road relevant’ series.

    be we don’t want that do we?

    No, we want 26 cars that aren't all the same car and that can run side-by-side, where proper overtaking is a regular feature :-D

  • me16/12/2008 at 19:15

    Not to interupt the conversation, but there is a new facebook game. LINK: http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=6730&uid=22534566720

    :)

    i likes it. will have a think.

  • Andy Taylor16/12/2008 at 19:41

    I've never really got the F1 - road car crossover thing. The engine is in the wrong place on a road car for starters (says the VW Beetle owner :)). OK, flappy paddle gearchange, but wouldn't that have happened anyway?

  • Jon Waldock16/12/2008 at 19:43

    flappy paddle gearchange, but wouldn’t that have happened anyway?

    most paddle gear changes in cars are rubbish anyway, so f1 cant be that good for it!! lol

  • Andy Taylor16/12/2008 at 19:48

    New "I'm a Mac" adverts for the holidays:

    http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 19:53

    I just watched the Monaco vid someone has dropiod. That is a great hour's entertainment.

  • me16/12/2008 at 19:58

    I just watched the Monaco vid someone has dropiod. That is a great hour’s entertainment.

    more? oh, jeez!

  • me16/12/2008 at 19:58

    New “I’m a Mac” adverts for the holidays

    ;)

  • Dank16/12/2008 at 20:05

    Hamilton to appear on stamps - but in the Isle of Man only.

  • me16/12/2008 at 20:06

    Hamilton to appear on stamps - but in the Isle of Man only.

    not good enough for england?

    bet you that gets a mention on top gear this week :)

  • Dom16/12/2008 at 20:08

    bet you that gets a mention on top gear this week

    Bet you it doesn't. ;)

  • me16/12/2008 at 20:13

    Bet you it doesn’t.

    problem with the argument is i can't win it, cause i won't see it :)

  • R.G (The Walking Northerner)16/12/2008 at 20:14

    problem with the argument is i can’t win it, cause i won’t see it

    Bet you it doesn't since its not even on this week.

  • me16/12/2008 at 20:15

    Bet you it doesn’t since its not even on this week.

    oh.bugger.

  • lou16/12/2008 at 20:19

    bet you that gets a mention on top gear this week

    bet you it never gets mentioned ;) the next is in the new year and a top gear special only ;)

  • Dom16/12/2008 at 20:20

    Bet you it doesn’t since its not even on this week.

    Sorta what I was hinting at. :P

  • Christine16/12/2008 at 20:20

    bet you that gets a mention on top gear this week

    What have I told you about gambling without having all the facts?

  • me16/12/2008 at 20:22

    bet you it never gets mentioned the next is in the new year and a top gear special only

    right.

  • me16/12/2008 at 20:23

    What have I told you about gambling without having all the facts?

    i didn't gamble anything but my pride, and that's basically worthless.

    i'm learning :)

  • Steven Roy16/12/2008 at 20:46

    i didn’t gamble anything but my pride, and that’s basically worthless.

    So what's wrong with the panda suit if you have no pride? :)

  • R.G (The Walking Northerner)16/12/2008 at 20:49

    So what’s wrong with the panda suit if you have no pride?

    He still has a small bit of dignity.

    Very small though

  • me16/12/2008 at 20:51

    So what’s wrong with the panda suit if you have no pride?

    i don't want to die.

  • me16/12/2008 at 20:51

    He still has a small bit of dignity.

    Very small though

    thanx :)

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 20:51

    bet you it never gets mentioned the next is in the new year and a top gear special only

    December 28th I 'eard. Don't quite think that's the new year ;)

  • Andy Taylor16/12/2008 at 20:53

    i didn’t gamble anything but my pride, and that’s basically worthless.

    Only ever bet on certanties.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/columnists/miles-kington/welcome-to-the-world-of-the-absolute-certainty-585408.html

  • R.G (The Walking Northerner)16/12/2008 at 20:58

    thanx

    No probelm Mr C

  • me16/12/2008 at 21:02

    Only ever bet on certanties.

    :D

  • Christine16/12/2008 at 21:03

    Only ever bet on certanties.

    And also don't promise people Doctor Pepper.

  • Andy Taylor16/12/2008 at 21:14

    Certainties like this one:

    http://www.slinkycity.com/gambling-joke.html

  • me16/12/2008 at 21:20

    And also don’t promise people Doctor Pepper.

    and then fail to deliver.

  • littlepurplegoth16/12/2008 at 22:50

    And also don’t promise people Doctor Pepper.

    and then fail to deliver.

    That sounds like it was a painful mistake...

  • Jon Waldock16/12/2008 at 22:55

    That sounds like it was a painful mistake…

    Promising every american dr pepper...id say so...

  • Andy Taylor16/12/2008 at 22:55

    That sounds like it was a painful mistake…

    I think it refers to the promise by Dr Pepper that if Guns `N' Roses released their new album before the end of 2008 they'd give everyone in the US a free can of their drink. When the album was released, Dr Pepper announced a coupon would be available for one day only.

  • Andy Taylor16/12/2008 at 23:18

    I've just finished watching the Williams documentary. Extremely interesting stuff - that Sir Frank was considering Mika Hakkinen over Damon Hill for 1993 and that Patrick Head agrees with me over the F1/road car crossover thing - he said that they develop things to make the car go faster and that anything that trickled down to road cars was an added bonus.

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 23:19

    I’ve just finished watching the Williams documentary. Extremely interesting stuff - that Sir Frank was considering Mika Hakkinen over Damon Hill for 1993 and that Patrick Head agrees with me over the F1/road car crossover thing - he said that they develop things to make the car go faster and that anything that trickled down to road cars was an added bonus.

    Was that the Extraordinary People documentary about Williams before the 1993 season?

  • me16/12/2008 at 23:20

    geeky question for anyone who's around...

    facebook connect, worth looking into for sidepodcast.com?

  • Andy Taylor16/12/2008 at 23:20

    Was that the Extraordinary People documentary about Williams before the 1993 season?

    Yes :)

  • Jon Waldock16/12/2008 at 23:21

    facebook connect, worth looking into for sidepodcast.com?

    whats that?

  • me16/12/2008 at 23:22

    whats that?

    i think it means you can comment here using your facebook login details, instead of the usual three boxes. also your comments get synced back to your fb profile.

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 23:23

    Yes

    Ah excellent. I have pretty much all of that on a video tape somewhere. It cuts out at the point where Prost is going back out on circuit sometime. Must watch the full doc. I love one bit where this guy walking past the back of the pits catches Prost putting his helmet on and just stops and stares and the narrator says "Well, if you were a portuguese builder, you'd stop for a look!" :D

  • Jon Waldock16/12/2008 at 23:27

    i think it means you can comment here using your facebook login details, instead of the usual three boxes. also your comments get synced back to your fb profile.

    so people kinda of have their own profile on here-ish?? man, if lou does 1000 comments on here then id hate to see her fb when it shows on there lol

  • lou16/12/2008 at 23:28

    i think it means you can comment here using your facebook login details, instead of the usual three boxes. also your comments get synced back to your fb profile.

    erm not sure that's really needed. the amount of comments some of us make here our whole facebook profiles would be full with comments from here. Personally i wouldn't use it.

  • me16/12/2008 at 23:28

    so people kinda of have their own profile on here-ish?? man, if lou does 1000 comments on here then id hate to see her fb when it shows on there lol

    it wouldn't work with live commenting. you'd be banned from fb within the hour :)

  • me16/12/2008 at 23:30

    erm not sure that’s really needed. the amount of comments some of us make here our whole facebook profiles would be full with comments from here. Personally i wouldn’t use it.

    it seems to be all the rage at the moment, but no point spending lots of time on it if no-one would use it.

    i don't even have an fb profile :)

  • Jon Waldock16/12/2008 at 23:33

    i don’t even have an fb profile

    thats because no-one can find out your secret identity...

  • me16/12/2008 at 23:34

    thats because no-one can find out your secret identity…

    umm, fb would let me create an account with the name "me". apparently they claim it's not a real name or something?

  • Jon Waldock16/12/2008 at 23:35

    umm, fb would let me create an account with the name “me”. apparently they claim it’s not a real name or something?

    pfft, of course it is :P

  • lou16/12/2008 at 23:35

    umm, fb would let me create an account with the name “me”. apparently they claim it’s not a real name or something?

    you could always call yourself Mr C :P

  • me16/12/2008 at 23:36

    pfft, of course it is

    :)

  • me16/12/2008 at 23:37

    you could always call yourself Mr C

    i'll give it a try.

  • lou16/12/2008 at 23:37

    i’ll give it a try.

    :D

  • Jon Waldock16/12/2008 at 23:38

    you could always call yourself Mr C

    get christine to change her name to Terresa or something, and then you can be Mr T :D

  • Scott Woodwiss (Pronounced Wood-wiss, not Wood-wise :/)16/12/2008 at 23:38

    Did anyone hear about Porsche leaving the ALMS as well?!?! Goddamn economic downturn! :(

  • me16/12/2008 at 23:39

    get christine to change her name to Terresa or something, and then you can be Mr T

    haha!

    here's fb's response:

    "Our automated system will not approve this name. If you believe this is an error, please contact us."

    should i mail and point out the error of their ways?

  • Jon Waldock16/12/2008 at 23:40

    should i mail and point out the error of their ways?

    yes, you should. although you probably shouldnt send them an email from an accoun that is [email protected]

    that might help to disprove you :P

  • Andy Taylor16/12/2008 at 23:49

    get christine to change her name to Terresa or something, and then you can be Mr T

    But then me couldn't ever fly again, fool.

  • Alianora La Canta17/12/2008 at 21:44

    i don’t even have an fb profile {me - 13 comments ago}

    Join the club - I don't have one because I can't get Facebook to load properly on my computer. Any site that looks like it fell out the back of a word-and-blue-blobs truck, with hardly any sentences that actually make sense, is probably best put on the "avoid" list.

    My computer is quite picky about its websites...