Not sure what to write really, nothing much happened today, did it? Oh yea, except for Max's small press release that has changed the entire future of Formula 1. There's so much to discuss that it really can't be covered in a small list. We've already been arguing the pros and cons of pit stops, what's next?
- Why are Renault getting special treatment? Have they already given next year's championship to Alonso?
- Alianora pointed out that the new engine rules aren't exactly clear. But that's hardly a surprise when it comes to the FIA, is it?
- Should we all go and work at F1 factories, if they get to have six weeks off a year? Make sure you don't accidentally apply for a job on the race team, though, as they're getting whittled down.
- The FIA are suggesting that market research is the way forward for any ideas that Max didn't think up, so Bernie's kindly put a poll on his site. The only answer is no, if you're in any doubt, click no. Just say no, people.
We're also in the midst of planning the live Sidepodparty for next week, so if you've got any ideas, head on over to the Wiki and pop 'em up there. See you in the comments.
Well what do you know, dont often come here at 00:46.
Soooo, nowt much happening then.
Sorry it's late. :)
normally this is about the time of night we bitch about those who go to bed early ;)
No I'm just saying, I don't often come here at 00:46.
Not tonight for me then!
You know you're an F1 fan when you accidentally sing:
"Do, do, doooo, come on and do the Honda."
Or me!
raise expectations then quit on a whim?
Good morning, everyone.
Done. :P
Any news on the FIA Gala?
And lastly, RoC today! Woot! :D
:D
"Put your pit stop in, pit stop out, in, out, shake it all about"
I thought it was tomorrow?
Is it? Aw crap, I've managed to stay awake Saturday without realising it :(
Tis Sunday mate.
gala news:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7780985.stm
Oooooh! This is it! Yaaaay!
Ayrton?
ah damn it! you literally got there 2 secs before me. i was just about to press post.
huh? it's tomorrow... isn't it? i hope it's not today anyway!
GALA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCrJRgzTBCE
What does he have to do with it?
it's the same freakin' f1.com video from brazil?
rubbish :(
fia gala 2008 video:
I don't think i like the FIA gala vid as much as i liked last year's. i don't like the constant Senna comparisons. It's taking the whole Senna-esque thing way to far in my opinion.
could do better i guess.
Can't watch it. It's just too much.
apparently the best thing about 2008 is a fashion in monaco.
I feel sorry for Massa again after watching that video.
it could be MUCH better.
they set a high bar last year.
Alright me out, ciao until 9ish.
And no
They've taken a whole different angle on this years one. It should work, but it doesn't...
and the year before, and the year before, and the year before, etc
Agreed. I'm surprised it doesn't say 'Inspired by James Allen' at the bottom...
feels like several people worked on that... in different countries.
It's pretty good, actually. Not as groundbreaking as 2007 was, but still very good.
2 things that could've been better:
a. The Senna-Hamilton comparison is still way too early. They could've done more of what they did towards the end of the vid, which was to use Senna's words to give tribute to both Massa AND Hamilton's efforts - that was actually pretty touching.
b. Replaying the f1.com Brazil video wasn't ideal. It would've been nicer if they looked at that race from a slightly different angle. But at least they used a different 2nd song instead of PCD. :P
Now, rip before FIA takes it down! :P
I managed to vote "no".
Note two things:
1) That's not Max's site (which is just as well, since the FIA site doesn't work on my computer at the moment)
2) They haven't put anything agreed yesterday for public voting/consultation yet. Which was promised.
True. I'm not sure I'm even speaking English anymore. I'll get the man to fix it.
Funny how Dom, Lou, and myself seemed to find the FIA Gala vid within a minute of each other? :)
yeah i suppose... but why not get the same people to do the gala video as the f1.com videos. they are great. This years is disappointing, it comes across to me as being pretty biased and one of the reasons i liked last years was because it didn't show any particular bias it was just a great summery of the season. I suppose after the awesome season we had i had high hopes for the video.
Although i saw one thing i don't remember - rubens pushing his car in Singapore. That i don't remember.
was that before he threw his hat into the sea?
Gloves. They went in separate directions.
Why do they include Austin Powers but not the Japanese race?
I like how they fitted in Bernie running on the grid though. :)
Good point. Heck, they inserted Valencia over Fuji!
At least they didn't show any race shots from Shanghai. :)
Other stuff I think we should've seen:
- Massa spinning off in Sepang
- Alonso's run in Barcelona
- Lewis-Vettel in Magny-Cours
Well, at least Keith seems to be saying that the season DVD is mega. :)
We need more clips from the racing, rather than Bernie's F1 Media Globe.
Possible re-post but South Africa may be aiming to get back into F1 now
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72463
Showing the media coverage of Hamilton v Massa was also pretty nice, come to think of it. It was subtle messaging that worked pretty well.
i'm thinking it was because Lewis didn't do too well at the first corner in Fuji and since the whole video has a 'Lewis is awesome' feel to it, it might not have been what they were looking for, but i agree it should be in there. As should Rubens' podium :P
Glad to hear it. SA make an appearance on my 'dream calendar'.
It's quite amazing how every time a track leaves the calendar we get stories of other tracks which want a race. It's almost like Bernie contacts them and tells them that a slot is available and if they can put a proposal togther they can have a race. Then he can use them to beat up whoever he actually wants on the calendar.
South Africa has a good history in the sport and I have come across South African fans on a number of sites who are very knowledgeable about the sport and its history. They definitely should have a race but i sense this is Bernie playing politics.
He he, when isn't he?
when he's sleeping?
Betcha he dreams of how to outplay his opponents in his sleep!
but hey, they included bahrain and montreal, so fuji would've been OK to put in. let's remember massa also messed up in fuji. rubens' podium is also definitely a must-add, as is glock's german accident.
speaking of accidents i don't remember seeing Heikki's accident in spain either in it either...
oh dear... my english.. i think that might be a hint for me to go to sleep.
night all.
Could not what more than a mintue of the Gala video:
Saw Senna, that all I needed to see.
Oh, crap, Hamilton, if you really want to be just like Senna, just take out however's behind you on the first corner of the championship deciding race. The trick is not to apply the brake at all.
Senna and Schumacher are the two worst drivers that Hamilton needs to model himself after, becasue they both have won two championships by creaming into their rivals twice,a nd they are the biggest reasons why I think F1 is too safe. In Gilles Day, drivers knew that crap like that would kill both of you, nowadays, well everyone saw what Kubica was able to walk away from at Montreal so with a championship on the line, especially with a damaged car, it is worth a shot....
us too. night lou.
Looking at the vid again, I see they DID include it. Oops. :P
Good point. That should've been in there too.
To be fair to Lewis, he didn't edit the video, the FOM-appointed team did.
While Senna and Schumacher had their weaknesses, no doubt, they do have many positives which Lewis should emulate. Senna's passion for racing and winning and Schumacher's sheer dedication to fitness and improving the team and the car raised the game to a new level. Lewis would do well to pick up those qualities for himself as well.
Does 'me' still throw like Barrichello?
Bernie's got the Politics bit down to a science. He's evening sending down his best buddy Hermann Tilke to see if the Kyalami needs to be updated (Tilkeodromed) or if a new falt piece of land can be found for a brand new track.
Good god no!
Oh good. A great circuit that was tamed down the last time it was used for F1 is now going to be Tilked.
Journeyer said:
While Senna and Schumacher had their weaknesses, no doubt, they do have many positives which Lewis should emulate. Senna’s passion for racing and winning and Schumacher’s sheer dedication to fitness and improving the team and the car raised the game to a new level. Lewis would do well to pick up those qualities for himself as well.
If anyone develops Senna's "passion" for winning at all costs he needs to be placed under arrest for murder in the first degree, hopefully in a place where they have the death penalty for such things.
Loved how he admitted to deliberatly running into Prost after Prost won it back.Not that Iwas his favorutie fan at the time, but to aim your car into someone like that.....psycopath.
Senna was a racing driver. He was paid to race and to win races and championships. Military people are paid to kill people, not racing drivers.
At the Thursday press conference for the firstrace the following season Senna was asked about ramming Prost of the track and the video of it was shown. His comments stunned the press. "It didn't happen like that. That is a lie." Quite how anyone could have faked the video and got everyone to buy into it is beyond me but in his mind it hadn't hapened like that and such was his self belief that to him it was more likely that the world was against him and the video was faked that it was that he was wrong.
Does 'a ban on the mechanical purging of tyres' refer to tread or pressure?
My guess is tread given the term 'mechanical' but purge in an engineering sense usually refers to
something like:
Removal of particulate matter from air within an enclosed vessel by means of air displacement
I think that was the difference.
Schuey was a terrible liar but Senna genuinely believed he was right :D
It refers to the practise off inflating the tyres with nitrogen and then deflating them then repeating the cycle several times. Nitrogen can be dried much better than air and the less moisture in the gas the more predictable th behaviour with varying temperature and pressure. The teams have pump systems that inflate and deflate the tyres several times before the tyres are ready for use.
But Nitrogen will still be used to pressurise the tyres due to it's inert properties I assume.
That's a standard used in the aircraft industry that I thought was carried over for good sense
Aircraft wheels are assembled and then pressurised with Nitrogen to maintain the sidewall integrity during transport and storage (sometimes at a reduced pressure)
I don't know of any industry that pressurises with 'air'
With respect to relatively high pressures I mean (150psi+)
Apart from Ferrari who have the secret gas that Mclaren found out about everyone uses nitrogen. The tyres are put on the wheels in atmospheric air so they use the purge to push out any water in that air.
Ferrari's secret gas is variously reported as carbon dioxide or some weird Freon mix.
Apparently, Briatore threatened to not to agree with further testing restrictions. He would only do that if he was allowed to increase the performance of the Renault engine.
This I believe only applies for Italian based teams only? Factories in Italy close down for the majority of August at the moment, probably much the same across continental Europe.
That video was awful....
It's a travesty that Senna should be used alongside Lewis at the moment and we saw almost as much of Nicole "whats-her-name" as we did of the drivers....
Is there anywhere you can see last years??.. I loved that... but then I guess that's no surprise....
It's CO2. It was put into that FIA report on the Spygate affair... and the FIA made a complete hash of censoring it properly so you could still read the censored bits. :D
When the transcripts came out of Spygate, did anyone read them all through??
I was tempted, but put off by the "page 1 of 81" at the bottom
I did.
I have no social life though. :D
The best bit about that vid was the Ferrari mechanic punching the wall :D
And speaking of the 'poll' on F1.com - Is it likely that we'll ever see the results of that? I think not...
I did.
Headbutting it. Also broke the Ferrari sign. :D
Now he's come up with a crazy idea for the Sidepodparty:
http://sidepodcast.wetpaint.com/page/The+12+Days+of+F1+Christmas
I didn't realise me was such a little/big genius.
Ooooh. *gets thinking cap...*
2-5 are filled up. I'm on 5! :)
I made a suggestion for 1 too. :D
ahahaha XD now that is an awesome idea!
Sign up for 12 lou, then you only have to say it once :)
I did something similar in 2006 on a different site...
Only mine was...
Kimi's Twelve Days of Christmas (well what did you expect?) and started:-
On the Twelve Days of Christmas Ferrari gave to me...
A car to make me WDC....
(And they actually did of course!!)...
I actually came up with a new line each day so that I only had the whole series on the Twelfth Day...
PS I have checked out Bernie's question....
And I said NO...
Thats no 10 done.
i would... but i was gonna do one to do with honda or jenson... all i can come up with so far is '11- points for Rubens'...:P
Well that works too :)
Nice idea! Hmmm... I think it would work better if you fit it into 4 syllables. Makes it easier to sing. :D
Better?
Better. You'll have to sing it fast though. :P
That's ok, we're not looking for perfection :)
Good luck there. :P
Another suggestion for Number 5... As a Silverstone tribute...
5 Massa Spins!
Oooh. That sounds even better! let's put that on. :)
To follow the correct poetic metre...
You could use 10 Kimi Quick laps or 10 Kimi fastest...
5.... Spins for Massa....
And how about 6 ...Different winners...
I was kinda thinking that, but as Christine said, it doesn't need to be perfect.
Sure, put it on!
I also moved up to a different number: 9. :)
for some reason i thought there were 7 different winners...
Could do. But there was 7. ;)
Hamilton
Hekki
Massa
Raikkonen
Vettel
Kubica
Alonso.
2 Ferrari, 2 McLarens, 1 BMW, 1 Renault, 1 STR. Yup, 7 alright.
:D
Not that it gives me nice warm feelings when thinking of that... ;)
OK ...
7 different winners will do nicely...
Another for 11 would be...
11... Sutil exits...
I can't believe he didn't finish 11 GPs....
Hmmm...
How many "best" races did Lewis have?....
I think Lou took 11 already. Only 12, 8, and 6 are still vacant. :)
i heard melbourne '09 will be his best race ever.
Got one for Number 6. :D
tis ok, i dun mind if LadySnowcat wants to use 11 she can :)
we can have more than one suggestion can't we? or would that complicate matters?
Will there be a vote?
maybe list every idea we have and we'll vote on it when we're on the call :)
sounds good to me :)
i'll second that. :)
:) hehe i was just counting up the wet races :D
Probably too late but it's interesting to note that it's....
6.... teams for Fisi....
Gread minds think alike...
Great even.... Ok, so mine isn't so great. ;)
Of course for aliteration you should have....
6... Massa wins...
5... Massa spins...
And for 8 you could have....
8... points for DC...
(I think that the Rubens one should stay for 11 given that it's probably his last season...)
Anyone know how many engine "jokers" were played...
But I've got an idea... isn't the 12th day effectively the 5th Jan....
So how about...
12....weeks to the next race....
(Well that's only out by about a day)...
About 4 I think
can you name them?
- massa
- kimi
- heikki
ummm.
Didn't Webber use one?
glock did, in fuji.
8 Ferrari Failures?
Number of engines they had fail *including Toro Rosso and Farce India*
It has to have been more than 8...
I mean there were 2 at Melbourne...
3 ;)
My counting shows 8 official failures to finish caused by engines failures.
You are correct....
Three it is....
So a big improvement after that...
And two oil pump failures in qualy in Oz too...
Talk about a nightmare start...
Guys....
Just spotted that Vijay is sticking by Fisi and Sutty...
And Tonio as test driver too...
Soooo lots of fuss for nothing then...
ahh, nice. thought ron had got to him :)
:( oh god i hope they find a buyer
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72469
Got to admire his loyalty.
yeah, it's an incredible commitment, but also scary for his fans, i just hope there is someone.
If he's also actually been given the wink that he wouldn't get a run with TR or FIF1, then he is able to say this knowing he'll lose nothing... and it gives heart to the guys at Brackley too....
But I too hope that his loyalty is rewarded by a suitable buyer...
not great quality (nor widescreen), but video interview from vijay on cost-cutting:
Or another way of saying 'I can't get a drive anywhere else'?
Just added an entry for 8 :)
I was a big fan of Vijay Mallya's initial approach to Formula One, so find it somewhat sad how things have turned out. In the past week we've had him threatening to go back on his word to retain Fisichella and Sutil, before eventually confirming them a few days later. And there was a report in the Financial Times which mentioned that the team have become bad payers, and don't treat suppliers very well.
Mallya seems to have blamed technical partners, engineers and drivers for what he sees as a lack of success, when maybe the problems are more down to his own unrealistic expectations.
Just a reminder for anyone wanting to watch top gear tomorrow (i've just had to be reminded) it is on at 9pm tomorrow instead of the usual 8. Not that i am likely to be home by then anyway. :)
aside from you lou, is anyone else going to be at wembley tomorrow? we'll be live commenting the whole thing, just curious who we're looking out for during the crowd shots?
lol you better not see me.. lol u prob wont anyway, we are pretty high up i think. :P i will miss live commenting :( another reason for an iphone/Google phone/ samsong omnia :P
if you can feel your fingers, pls text christine once you've arrived safe. we'll relay your thoughts back here :)
Will there be a show tomorrow?
yup, about 7pm i think. what does the calendar say?
ooo good idea. :) lol will do.
19:00 hrs indeed.
Engine Jokers, actually there were 7 :)
Kimi
Felipe
Mark
Timo
S Bourdais
Adrian
and Heikki
bout 8:30 then :)
:D
I did. Both the McLaren and the Renault transcripts
You can vote once for each browser you have installed.
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2007/09/19/the-fia-transcripts-part-1/
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2007/09/20/the-fia-transcripts-part-2/
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2007/12/18/the-fia-transcripts-part-3/
that would be a yes :)
had to be done. didn't enjoy it, but it was important stuff.
but RoC doesn't end till 7:30. your going to miss the last 1/2hr of the race?
erm... we've thought this through, honest.
thing is. we have to be done by the time top gear's on. so it's either that or no show :(
aw i see, yeah that makes sense :)
Right - time for what seems to have become my evening ritual...
Ice cold coke, good italian food and a Bond film. :D
Just preparing for RoC tomorrow. And the list of prohibited items that applies makes for interesting reading: http://www.wembleystadium.com/events/ProhibitedItems/
• Professional cameras & recording devices (This applies to cameras that have interchangeable lenses)
• Umbrellas
• Cans, water bottles
Nice us motor racing fans are being tarnished with the football hooligan brush eh? The other-half isn't particularly happy about not being allowed to take her gigantic DSLR!
what the ....?
that can't be for real can it?
No brollies? Hmmm. Understandable with the seatsHowever the no professional camera rule is rediculous. How do you judge what is a professional camera? By their standards you could pick up a Canon 1000d for £250 and that would be professional....
I could understand 1D's and 5D's being barred though - they are prosumer level kit.
A couple of people I spoke to who went last year said the rule applied then. Some got away with it, but there was reports that security took a heavy handed approach to some unlucky few and confiscated their cameras and other items.
Mickey Mouse rules for a Mickey Mouse event...
wha?!!?!?!? NO DSLR?!?!?!?! :O NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe it's anything with an interchangeable lens.
wow. i'm glad they're not getting a penny from us. that's the most absurd thing i've heard.
:( i'm sad now. i can't take my nice camera :( how am i gonna be able to get nice shots of Jenson and the race.... so the point of going for my A level photography is almost gone :( i'm sad now.
Sadly yes. The organisers can place any restrictions they want. Of course it is stupid as even with a long telephoto lens you'd need to be near the front to get any decent shots.
they can't steal your stuff though?
i'd charged all my cameras and everything... and packed everything up already :(
it's gotta be worth taking hasn't it?
not if i end up loosing it :( it will just be an extra weight in my bag...
They don't steal your stuff. It's a choice. If you don't give it to them, you don't give in.
*get in.
in that case i'd take the camera and if they didn't let me in i'd look into getting my money back.
was all this info given at the point of purchase?
That is pathetic. They have to realise that it's a motor sport event and a lot of motor sports fans go to take photos ad a lot of the have expensive camera equipment.
you need expensive equipment to shoot cars, they don't tend to hang around.
That makes my now worth less than £30 and very old pocket camera banned as it has an interchangable lens....
The unfortunate thing here is trying to explain that to the jobs worths who stand in the way. Explaining to them that just because I have a nice looking camera doesn't necessarily mean I'm looking to make a bob or two, will probably fall on deaf ears.
Saying that, just looking through Flickr and some of the pics from last year were clearly taken on a half-decent setup. In the words of Anthony Hamilton, Lou might want to 'risk it for the biscuit'
(though don't go blaming me if it goes horribly wrong!)
hmm... looks like my beloved camera is gonna have to sit tomorrow out then :( no idea if i have enough memory in my XD camera cards for my digi camera to be able to take lots of pics tomorrow anyway. humpf.
haha XD
hmmm i'm not sure. i'll chat to my parents about it.
no idea, mum got the tickets so i'm not sure... i'm guessing it might have been under the terms and conditions or something... if it was she either didn't see it, or forgot to mention it to me.
As do a lot of professional sports photographers who pay for press access. As I said, the organisers make the rules, you either comply or you don't get in. I'm sure that the terms and conditions that no one reads will include all the details about what can and cannot be taken into the event.
Example. Matey was asked to return his camera to his car. He arrived by train so smuggled it in. Got caught and was cautioned. Bunch of killjoys!
Well, you know, just in case you want to film how the car drives when you steal it?
a) They are annoying
b) Wembley's roof covers fans (won't cover track, so if it rains...)
a) bomb threat and all this
b) They'll want you to buy all the stuff from inside Wembley.
Found a post over on DPreview.com:
"I've been denied entry to lots of events due to the lens on my camera. I finally worked out an arraingement where I put the 70-200 lens in the bottom of my wife's purse* and just strap a camera body on myself. No one ever seems to notice even when they examine my wife's purse."
*I think this is american for "handbag".
c) so you don't chuck lids, bottles onto the tracks
amazing they haven't banned coins and everything cost £5
amazing they haven't banned people.
Aye, though I doubt they'd chuck themselves onto an oncoming buggy driven by Michael Schumacher.
And loving the '12 days of F1 Christmas' ones already, only need a 12.
And food can't be taken in either. Jesus Jack Jones. I'm actually considering not bothering going tomorrow. Good job these tickets were free.
They want you to buy from inside Wembley, not bring outside food.
I know that. And I know that the prices inside are scandalous (£6.50 for a hamburger). Way to go to peeve your customers off.
especially as they haven't even got to cover bernie's exorbitant hosting fees.
yeah it's a good job we got the cheaper tickets actually, even though we will be pretty high up... ah well i suppose it's a day out.
In reality, you could by 3 hamburgers for that, however, cos Wembley ows quite a bit of money
Couldn't you just sneak some food in a bag or something? Or would they pick that up at the entrance?
It would have to be small food for it not to be recognised, ie, a few mars bars.
I think i've all but decided not to bring my DSLR tomorrow. It's not an option for me to loose it in any way, i can't afford to take that risk, i love it too much, it's a shame that they don't allow you to take them and that i probably wont be able to include the photos i do take in my Alevel sketchbook.. tbh we are so high up i'm not sure it would have made much difference, but it does really bug me not being able to take it. I'll take my smaller digi cameras and try not to get angry as someone near me starts snapping with their Dslr (which is highly likely to happen with my luck of late).
Either that or just hide it in your jacket :P
i heard they've got one of these at each turnstile:
is it worth it for a marsbar?
Mehehehe! I've been going through a Robocop phase recently. Bought the DVD and watched the whole 10 min Robo-rap :-D
Robocop is great :)
I can't think of anything that fits for the 12th day of F1 Christmas. So far I've got 12 points finishes for Lewis and that a maximum of 12 teams are allowed to compete.
Aaaah the Enforcement Droid Series 209 ;)
I've got a model of one of them to build. I've worked out it's about 18" tall fully built. :D
Ooo - how about 12 F1 Minutes?
Trust me... there were a few more than that :)
What about 12 tyre changers - 3 on each wheel? :P
Yeah, but 12 during the 12 days of Christmas. Come on - work with me here....
12 years of itv coverage?
12 years of gridwalks?
wow has anyone seen this video? http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/2008/12/from-first-to-final-corner-in-eight.html it's awesome! Why couldn't the people making the vid for the gala do something like that?
From the man himself (on itv-f1.com):
"The Grid Walk has taken on a life of its own. It wasn’t my idea; it was thought up by Gerard Lane and Neil Duncanson from North One, who suggested I walk along the grid and talk about what I saw. I think we pioneered it at the 1997 British Grand Prix."
So 12 years of Gridwalks it is then :)
That video is absolutely amazing!
Great stuff, that had just the right amount of F1 Dads and Girlfriends plus it also had the Ferrari girl who looks a bit like Christine (or not). :)
There's only one place that footage could have come from - Official. F1. Review. DVD :P
Looks like there's some kind of "No music, just engines" option :P
Noticed that this morning. Truly excellent. Makes the FIA look bad, really.
When the transcripts came out of Spygate, did anyone read them all through?? {Jon Waldock - 141 comments ago}
Yes. All three of them (but not the unredacted version of the September document, which I refused to read out of principle). Yucky things they were.
You'd think so Scott, but they've ended up putting the little F1 logo at the bottom of the entire review this year.
huh?? why?
Hey, Christine could claim she's that girl and get access to the ferrari pit ;) Inside stories and all that
Really? Hmm. so where could it have come from? :S
I think most of it might have come from the F1.com videos, actually.
Other parts of it, though... Kathi?
But there were some bits that looked like they were from the F1 video edits but without any music, like at the beginning. :S
Just spotted that Vijay is sticking by Fisi and Sutty…
And Tonio as test driver too…
Soooo lots of fuss for nothing then… {LadySnowcat - 70 comments ago}
I am really, really happy about this. Not only did all three drivers perform well enough to earn their extensions, but Sutil and Fisichella already had 2009 contracts. Thankfully there is at least one team on the grid where that still means something.
hehe :)
Very good editing, I guess.
You can just hear the end of the Muse song at 0:16. Is it bad that I noticed that?
wow well spotted.
Nice us motor racing fans are being tarnished with the football hooligan brush eh? {Dank - 69 comments ago}
My guess is that the venue has one set of rules that it applies to spectators for all the events it hosts regardless of how appropriate they are to the specific event. Cheaper for the rule writers and staff training costs...
Just looked at the first couple of minutes of the FIA clip. Bah. Hamilton is not Senna.
I could understand it if Felipe had won the title, but Lewis??
That is much better than the FIA version. I don't mind a little bit of Senna but they should use a few drivers to put a little bit of historical perspective but not just one driver.
Having once spent august working in a firm with sister factories across the Latin countries... Oh boy do they take a *whole* month off! You spent August with whole loads of UK and US firms wanting stuff that came from the european places and you simply couldn't get it to them before October and they (well, particularly the Americans) just couldn't get the idea !!
I was the poor marketing admin sod who had to deal with the tirades when the sales team refused to talk to them. On the flipside I did get to hear a lot of interesting gossip, have a large address book full of interesting addresses in F1, indy and the like (none of which I got to take away with me when I left :-( ), make a couple of really good friends that I'm still in touch with (they weren't people I worked with/for, but aged mariner types and a Navy Seal!); and I got to carry a bit of a very broken car when it came to the metals lab for testing to see if the car was the reason that someone in a red suit had driven into the wall and put himself out of the rest of the season (and, yes, I did cruelly do a little whoopee dance (vrf) )
huh?? why? {me - 10 comments ago}
I read the three documents for completeness but not the unredacted September one because technically that's illegal (because it reveals information known to be confidential). I have no intention of breaking the same law that caused the whole mess in the first place. Not only would that be fairly ironic, but I'm an assistant librarian. If I don't follow intellectual property rights law, what chance is there that anyone else will?
The difference is that you don't work for a F1 team. Seriously, if the information is there to be read, then read away... See Wikileaks for more stuff you probably shouldn't be able to look at :)
it wasn't illegal. the information was sent out in a legitimate fia press release. they never made menion of it, never redacted it and never said people shouldn't access or read it.
the did admittedly update the original copy removing some references, but you would have been doing nothing wrong then, or now by reading that content.
agreed. not taking the fia up on their very kind offer of transparency is just plain rude.
:D
The difference is that you don’t work for a F1 team. Seriously, if the information is there to be read, then read away… {Andy Taylor - 2 comments ago}
Intellectual property rights are nowhere near that simple, otherwise there wouldn't be so many wealthy IPR lawyers around. If something is a legitimate industry secret, the fact that someone has blabbed about it does not entitle someone to blab further unless they are in a special situation (e.g. they are a journalist and it is of special public interest* or they are reporting it to the police due to suspicions of illegality). As I am not in that sort of special situation, I had no right to facilitate the spread of that information by downloading it.
If me considers himself a digital journalist and thinks the unredacted stuff was in the public interest, then he would be in special circumstances, subject to the courts agreeing. But it would be a question of possibly asking forgiveness rather than being automatically denied permission in his case. It happens that I did not think the industry secrets in the document were likely to be of public interest, so that legally ruled me out of seeing it.
The FIA did redact the information - that was what the whole affair with putting in the extra blocks was about. It was clearly admitted on the site I discovered the existence of the unredacted document (F1 Fanatic). In fact, the FIA weren't the ones who were in a position to redact or not redact, because it wasn't their own secrets they spilt. It was Ferrari and McLaren whose secrets were revealed. And the fact that the FIA quickly redacted the information in the documents indicates that McLaren and Ferrari had a quiet word with the FIA.
The FIA did not have the legal right to transmit that information, and we do not have the legal right to deliberately receive it. Otherwise there would have been no McLaren/Ferrari case for the documents to emerge from in the first place.
* - note that it is only spreading industry secrets that is potentially illegal, not reading them. So anyone who listened to Sidepodcast's podcasts or read their blog posts concerning this would be completely within the law.
have uploaded the file here:
http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/wmsc-transcript-13-09-2007
you can download it to you machine and copy / paste the interesting bits into notepad to read them. you'll be doing nothing wrong.
agreed. not taking the fia up on their very kind offer of transparency is just plain rude. {me - 3 comments ago}
That's not transparency of their own procedures, which is what we asked for and what they promised...
The broken Spygate PDF is still available at F1 Fanatic:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/09/20/ferrari-and-mclaren-secrets-leaked-in-fia-document/
You need to cut and paste the text into a text editor to read the blacked out bits.
Isn't the Internet fun? :)
Snap!
I understand your point of view Alianora, but once something is in the public domain, then you'll come to no harm by reading it yourself.
you can download it to you machine and copy / paste the interesting bits into notepad to read them. you’ll be doing nothing wrong. {me - 2 comments ago}
I would because I'd be knowingly downloading industrial secrets to which I am not entitled. You may find this frustrating, but I am not going to deliberately break the law for something this trivial.
I understand your point of view Alianora, but once something is in the public domain, then you’ll come to no harm by reading it yourself. {Andy Taylor - 2 comments ago}
Unless my boss or CILIP finds out somehow. Then I could lose my job over it (because one of the requirements of it is the ability to handle information in a legally permissible fashion), which would be an extremely silly way of losing a job.
i'm not frustrated. it just means you're ill informed compared to the rest of us.
you know that race engineering printed this stuff in their magazine right? one that sells for actual money, in the shops.
they're still in business by-the-way.
Is that the one you keep praising?
here's more info on that publication:
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2007/11/25/secrets-of-the-f2007/
But you already know what it says as it's been widely discussed in the media (as me has pointed out). Your integrity and job are not at risk if you read the document in full.
it is, and i've been praising it since the beginning. christine doesn't appreciate it though :(
It's closer to a monumental balls up on the part of the FIA.
A bit like people in the current goverment having pictures taken while holding confidential briefings - that are then readable in the photo.... It's they're stupid enough to do that.
it's something that shouldn't have been in the public domain, but they made such a bad effort at covering it that anyone could read it.
I have a feeling it was more that this was discovered rather than Ferrari and McLaren complaining that caused it to get changed and done properly.
Unless you were reading it at work, in which case you could be in trouble, but for a different reason. ;)
Great magazine. :D
I like the fact you say Race engineering is available ina ll good bookshops, but only recently you said it was only in one.
you know that race engineering printed this stuff in their magazine right? one that sells for actual money, in the shops. {me - 5 comments ago}
No, I didn't even know that there was such a publication, let alone that they'd published the unredacted document. And besides, they could fall under the "journalist" special rule.
only borders sadly. have i ever mentioned how great borders is? lovely shop.
But you already know what it says as it’s been widely discussed in the media (as me has pointed out). Your integrity and job are not at risk if you read the document in full. {Andy Taylor - 7 comments ago}
Actually, I don't think I do - the references I've seen in the media so far have been pretty veiled.
give.me.strength.
i'm gonna end this conversation now.
My nearest borders is about 15 miles away.
So even though it's in a magazine - no one is allowed to read it then?
Unless you were reading it at work, in which case you could be in trouble, but for a different reason. {Andy Taylor - 7 comments ago}
If I steal something outside work, I'd get sacked because responsible handling of money is part of my job. Breaking the law with respect to elements directly relevant to other key parts of the job are also sackable regardless of where I commit the act.
it's totally worth the trip. they have lewis bio's in the bargin bin for £1.50.
I'm not allowed in Borders. I always walk out with at least 3 books when I do. It's a bad, naughty, evil place!
:D
Wait, it might be 20 miles away. I can't grasp the concept of working things out at 00:37
i didn't suggest you steal the magazine. just pay for it like everyone else ;)
Once he's had a long enough career to warrant a biography, then I'll buy one ;)
And in other words, I only go there for when I need things (its part of an industrial estate), last visit, July.
you could just read it online i guess:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/f1/164927/secrets-of-the-f2007.html
don't follow that link though alia!
hahaha that makes me laugh. i take it they aren't the new version.
no idea. just had big sign saying "own a piece of lewis... only £1.49" above them.
that was before brazil mind you.
I've just seen the latest issue.
Why the hell haven't I got it?
A nose for £1.49? Not bad.
Dear darling sidepodcasters.
If you read this/these documents, however you do it, You won't be breaking a law that has any teeth.
Its within *civil* tort, so the 'worst' you can get is a slap on the wrist of a fine (I believe, but I'd have to check this, that its even limited to around £1000).
Civil law is something that is very difficult to get anywhere wrt prosecution anyway. Well, not unless you have s***loads of cash and the person you are suing also has s***loads....
Enjoy!
Last time I checked, I didn't have £1000
haha XD
no idea.
as recommended by sidepodcast :)
actually. that's not true is it?
as recommended by me from sidepodcast.
So even though it’s in a magazine - no one is allowed to read it then? {Flibster - 2 comments ago}
If the reader of that magazine didn't know the trade secrets were in there on first reading, then technically they haven't broken the law because it's as if they inadvertantly heard those secrets while passing two people conversing on the topic. Of course, if the article made it clear they were industry secrets (albeit ones inadvertantly revealed to the public), general gossiping about them would be illegal.
I'd get the sack for stealing too, but that's not what I meant.
Unless you were the person who noticed that the document was broken - the redacted passages were readable with a little cut and paste work - and then mentioned it to someone else, then you are doing nothing wrong by reading it in full at home in your own time.
:D
So true Mr. C, well worth the inevitable 20 mile trip through torrential rain, skiddy roads and hours of traffic.
Actually, I'll pass.
it was released in france, so shouldn't eu laws apply?
p.s... language!
i didn’t suggest you steal the magazine. just pay for it like everyone else {me - 14 comments ago}
I was using theft as an easily-comprehended analogy. Since I don't know anywhere offline that would sell that copy of Racecar Engineering (noting that I've not seen any that even sell the current version), the question of whether to steal or buy the magazine is a moot point...
you're just making stuff up for laugh now?
are you gonna come back in the morning and say "...had you going for a minute there"?
borders, as recommended by... ahh, never mind.
i'm liking mr. c. by the way :)
And the result of this is that you'd know. Once you know, you know.
My dad once went on a training course and was interested in something he saw in the course exam, so he got out his pen to jot down whatever it was. ~The trainer told him he couldn't copy anything from the exam to take away with him so he just told the trainer that he'd remember it instead :D
Bless you, neither do I. But if you're under 18 it won't be you that has to pay it anyway.
And the reason that the £1000 max is signifignant is that fines that size or less are a) usually payable by installments and b) indicate that they don't usually bother pursuing them because its not worth the cost of doing so (usually the costs where the fine is under £1K are bourne by the system unless its been a flagrant abuse etc etc etc etc blah blah blah !)
Oh - and wrt 'breaking the law' you can only break criminal laws. Civil laws you are 'in breach of' :0
Its within *civil* tort, so the ‘worst’ you can get is a slap on the wrist of a fine (I believe, but I’d have to check this, that its even limited to around £1000). {littlepurplegoth - 6 comments ago}
I'm not worried about the fine. I'm worried about the criminal record and it losing me my job without any chance of getting a similar job (which doesn't even require a criminal record if the breach is suspected)...
It was Jeremy's idea Mr. C, he got me saying it.
Thank god.
What criminal record? It's a civil offence - not a criminal one.
you’re just making stuff up for laugh now? {me - 6 comments ago}
Sorry, it is actually true (unless my university tutors were having a laugh at their students' expense in Introduction to Information Management class, in which case I want to appeal my degree result...)
I now just have an interview situation going round in my mind...
Interviewer: Have you ever knowingly broken the law?
Interviewee: I did once read Race Car Engineering about the F2007 secrets?
Interviewer: Don't call us, we'll call you.
:D
:D
:D
Interviewee : But it was recommended by Mr. C from sidepodcast
Interviewer : That was a hint to leave
What criminal record? It’s a civil offence - not a criminal one. {Flibster - 2 comments ago}
Unfortunately my bosses do not appear to make that distinction. They have enough trouble with the concept that not paying an employee is against the law (don't ask)...
:D
i may just woken someone up by laughing ;)
WRT the EU thing - harmonisation means that you would be persued in the country in which you breached the copyright. And if you could argue that you'd read it in the US (as in, held in a US based datacentre) then the 1st amendment could protect you as well.....
Oh - and I'm being told elsewhere that they'd have to prove that you read the leaked original anyway to even have a hope of making a charge against you, not a paraphrased or reproduced article. Personal comment within it makes it reporting, not leaking :-) So in a magazine = no longer a legal issue.
After which it all gets sodding complicated...
i've just realised why i've never heard of borders before. The nearest one to me is a good hour and a bit away. lol
Sorry Mrs. C
The law makes that distinction. You don't get a criminal record for a parking fine do you? It's a Civil offence - the Crown Prosecution Service does not get involved.
you were being serious?
Anyway - enough of this for me. Time for a shower then a visit to the gym *it's surprisingly quiet at this time of day* and then on with the headphones and some serious music listening time. :D
TTFN
How come everyone lives so far away from borders? I got one down the end of my street. (I shall tell them about your recommendation, mr c.)
haha XD
An attempt to sack you for a low-level civil matter would land said employers in tribunal faster than failing to pay you would :-)
Legally civil matters are civil matters - the CRB check doesn't care about them, so you are under no obligation to tell your employer about them either.
Now the strange thing about fines is, that non-payment of them can become a criminal matter... but only sometimes...
where does "never heard of borders" rank on that scale?
yep :)
Wait a minute, they've been hiding Borders from me.
In fact. Theres one only 12.8 miles away, 17 minutes
i recommend you pay 'em a visit.
About 45 minutes away here - Milton Keynes or CambridgeBut the Norwich one is the one I visit mainly - it's where my big toy car is being sorted and where the parents live.
Which is my point exactly - when something is in the Public Domain it makes it impossible to know for certain where you read the information.
In the 1980s the government tried to ban the book Spycatcher because it supposedly contained state secrets. It was published in Scotland and other countries, but the English media was banned from reporting on it until the Law Lords agreed that this was a nonsense because anyone could simply pop over the border to a Scottish bookshop and legally buy and read the book.
Twenty years later the Internet makes it very hard for information to be supressed (unless it comes to the attention of the Internet Watch Foundation, but that's a different discussion).
Not tommorow, got me a football match
*looks outside window
Tommorrow sounds good actually
:D
lol XD i can't help that my town is useless :P lol even Jeremy Clarkson hates things about it.
Lol Lou... you must be really really down the tip of Kent!!
You probably aren't missing much though. Thankfully my local borders isn't quite as well stocked as any of the others I've ever lived near... hence my magazine habit is, um, better than it was.... and I don't buy as many books either (the cookery, philosopy and craft sections here aren't a patch on the ones in Cambridge. Actually the *really* fatal bookshop in Cambridge is the University press one... especially at sale time - esoteric bits of maths anyone? treatise on the anthropology of folk music? Thermodynamic and acoustic properties of musical instruments? Knitted Algebra (that one is pretty good, although I gave it to my mum... might have to go and ask for it back, rofl)? All the educational books you could ever wish for - the interesting ones, not the ones that schools seem to think are suitable - you know 'how to make bangs in the kitchen' and the like... argh, I feel the need for a trip to cambridge coming on soon after new year to see what nice things I can get me cough cough sorry 'the children')
yep, pretty much :)
Like the Spycatcher thing. The book was banned here but thousands of copies were brought into the country by business people and holidaymakers
Today we have Wikileaks to make things easier.
I had never heard of Wikileaks until you mentioned it earlier.
what are wikileaks?
Oh... could be pretty jealous of that actually, so much I miss about that part of the world, like 'proper' shops, (but we have more house here than we'd get there so.... rolls eyes at self)
http://www.wikileaks.org/
Reading the Racecar Engineering article about Ferrari's gas they say that it coold the tyre and maintains a constant pressure. Maybe its me but considering that Ferrari spent the whole year struggling to get heat into their tyres you have to wonder if they switched back to nitrogen or another gas that keeps the heat in.
lol our town doesn't have the kinda 'proper' shops i think your thinking about. but some villages close by do :) and i love them.
wikileaks.org is a web site where you can find interesting documents that some people would rather not have available on the Internet. Recent high profile information to be posted there includes the terms of the Northern Rock nationalisation, the operations manual for Guantanamo Bay, some Scientology stuff and the Membership list of the British National Party.
The way it is set up makes it extremely difficult to have stuff removed. The people who run the site describe it as "an uncensorable system for untraceable mass document leaking". All attempts (so far) to take the site down have failed.
hmmm. well that's a thought.
presumably if they get more heat into the tyre area, that plays havoc with their blanking shields (as seen by massa removing them a couple of times)?
Maybe they were using liquid Nitrogen?
ah thanks Andy and Steven :)
And it's superb.
Although the Scientology leaks would make a wonderful sci-fi book... Oh sorry, thats where thay came from.. ;)
ahh, must be time for more nostalgia:
you think that's why they need kimi?
Some say that L Ron Hubbard and Arthur C. Clarke had a bet about starting a religion...
Well if they switch (back) to CO2 he'd be the Dry Iceman :)
:D
Those are there for purely aerodynamic reasons. All the brake cooling bull was just a cover story to get round running illiegal aerodynamic devices. Alianora and I had a long discussion at the time and worked out that they are in breach of four or five different rules. Ferrari gave the game away on day 1 because they fitted them to the rear wheels first when anyone with a basic grasp of physics knows the front wheels carry the bulk of the braking load. In Canada which is the hardest circuit on brakes they had to take their brake cooling devices off to stop their brakes overheating. Only Max and his cronies refused to see the logic of that meant they were not being used to cool the brakes therefore they were illegal aero devices.
There is that quote though "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion"
Maybe. That would certainly stop the tyres heating up for a while although once it boils the effect on tyre pressure may be a little unpredictable.
so why did massa sometimes remove them mid-race (singapore?), and not kimi?
I've always maintained that they are moveable aerodynamics.
Certainly closer to the definition of that than the mass damper was.
Accoding to Racecar Engineering it was not just CO2. Only 50% of it was CO2 the rest was refrigerant gasses.
What about the effect on the tyre itself!
Driving styles, car handling differences, fault in the braking systems ?? Who knows.
CFCs?
It will probably change the softs to hards fairly quickly. Won't do the wheels much good and the rears being near a hot engine or exhaust could be slightly problematic.
HFCs. CFCs have been banned for the odd decade
Was thinking more of the rubber tube in liquid Nitrogen demonstration.
Brittle rubber...
If you want a serious answer the tyres and wheels would shatter on contact. If they somehow manged to intrduce a small amount of liquid nitrogen it would only affect the heat up time of the tyre. It would have no effect in nor mal running because the liquid notrogen would evaporate very quickly and you have a tyre full of gaseous nitrogen as normal but with the risk of problems caused when introducing the liquid originally. It is an absolute non-starter.
try telling that to alonso :)
You just give him a beaker to hold and pour liquid nitrogen into it. When his hand falls off he will get the point.
Did anyone see:
Coach Driver to Vettel: If you wanna lose your licenceVettel: I don’t have a licence
RoC montage is still streaming