I'm on the mend! I know you're all so very glad to hear it. What have I missed whilst I have been moping around feeling sorry for myself and my poor red nose? It would seem to be quite a lot, although not as much as I was hoping from those boys testing in Jerez.
- Toro Rosso weren't about to let anyone else near the top of the timesheets, were they? Buemi led all three days, so is that him a shoo-in for the seat then? He already was favourite and now he's shown up Sato and Bourdais? Does it all depend on Button though?
- Mr Ecclestone does like to kick people when they're down and has stuck the boot in to Honda, saying they were a bad example to other teams. Is this some clever marketing ploy to try and get a buyer asap, or is he just happy to make fun of someone else.
- Is it just me or is the new happy couple (FIA and FOTA) starting to freak you out about? They've never been so productive and have come to a landmark agreement that will revolutionise the sport. Are they going to tell us though? Fat chance. It's either a wonderful surprise or a terrible secret, and I bet I know which.
- Finally, Mr Hamilton has spoken up saying he doubts standard engines will come to pass, as the manufacturers are just too important. Does he know something we don't, is he just saying what he's told to say, or is this a genuine opinion from the lad?
Don't forget to let us know what your plans are for the weekend, especially if you're heading to the Race of Champions. There's some discussion over how to keep warm at Wembley, so if you've got any tips on that front, feel free to share them. We're not going, so we'll be hovering in the comments all weekend, and I hope to see you there!
I saved that flv to my HD. crappy quality, though. I suggest you download a hi-res one at [redacted]. :)
i'm not sure if the gala will be broadcast live in the UK (it wasn't last year), but it was broadcast live in Finland last year (since Kimi was champ), and the season video leaked onto YouTube in due course.
Hey, maybe it'll be live in the UK since Lewis is champ? :)
Hopefully, though, they upload a hi-res version of the season vid on the F1 website. Would be a fitting end to their season of race vids.
i suspect he was a little bit offended that they didn't want to play in his sandpit anymore.
here's a fundamentally radical concept from max. apparently he's not sold on bernie's gold medallion idea, and instead suggested that:
"We should ask the paying public what they think first."
holy freakin' moly! i've just printed that statement out in 75pt type and hung it over my screen. what will he think of next?
more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/motorsport/article2029183.ece
I've seen Max's idea of asking the paying public before. When he asks, he never listens for the answer but simply implements his ideas before the results are collated.
but what if they're not his ideas?
The last time he asked the paying public he totally ignored what we said. The week the FIA survey closed and before the results were collated Max announced his vision for the future of F1. I am still annoyed that I wasted 15 minutes of my life filling in that survey only for him to ride roughshod over it. Then when the results were published there was so much spin that I am surprised the print stuck to the page.
hehe. yeah i recall it well.
but what if they’re not his ideas? {me - 3 comments ago}
I've never heard of Max asking the public about ideas which are not his own (or at least ones he's plagiarised from others and is claiming as his own).
in that case i have high hopes :)
how come an 08 car goes 2.5 secs faster than an -essintially- 09 car (BMW) they're are both running similar downforce levels, to my knowlege STR don't have KERS and all the winglets from the 08 toro rosso create, at the very least, a bit more drag?
and whatever happend to buget caps? limit the buget and let the teams go crazy with whatever they want to spend their money on, right? isn't this better than all this standard engine stuff?
they want it 1.8L. what are we? motor bikes on 4 wheels here? they say that it'll be turbo charged so i guess if it's as fast as the one we have now...i'm more than ok with it (the size not standardization)
F1 is changing too much without us seeing where all this change leads to, i'm getting nuts over here
I am still annoyed that I wasted 15 minutes of my life filling in that survey only for him to ride roughshod over it. {Steven Roy - 3 comments ago}
That 2005 questionnaire was horrible. It took me six separate attempts (and about 90 minutes) to get the site to even load past the first page. Being shown that it was worthless effort, at the same time as Max spoke platitudes indicating the opposite, was pretty corrosive to my opinion of the FIA.
in that case i have high hopes {me - 3 comments ago}
That he'll actually listen or that he'll claim other people's ideas as his own?
and whatever happend to buget caps? {sam - 3 comments ago}
People finally figured out that they were unworkable. A clever accountant would easily get round the cap, especially if the accountant was working for a manufacturer.
On a lighter note, isn't the FIA Gala today? :)
christine's calendar says "FIA Prize Giving", so i'm guessing yep.
we on for another fia season video? last years was a keeper if i recall.
well, it's bernie's idea, and he doesn't like it. so presumably he'll listen to the people.
Yup, that's exactly what I'm waiting for tonight. After this year's great race highlight reels, this season's video should be even better than last year's.
Should also be interesting to see the WRC season vid, and how they portray Loeb's record-breaking season.
agreed. i say bring back slicks and see what that gets us.
Yay! I've been waiting for this years season edit. Gonna be mightily impressive.
yay :) am pleased your feeling better Christine :)
I've just been looking at some of Lorrenzo Balanca's photography for my AS sketchbook and came across some photos i thought you guys might be interested in. They are photos taken on Wurz and Vettel's climb of Mt Fuji back in October. I haven't seen any pics of their trip till now, and i just thought i would share them, so i dropioed them. :)
hehe, i just looked in the dictionary on the wiki to check the verb 'dropio'. hehe
looks like last years has bitten the dust:
http://www.sidepodcast.com/2007/12/08/2007-gala-coverage/
anyone have a copy?
oooo as in this evening?... oooo :D something to look forward to today/tomorrow (i haven't been to sleep yet so it is technically 11th not the 12th in my world :P )
In other news in the Max front, he is apparently backtracking on his promise to step down after this term. (Raise your hands if you are shocked... anyone?) Here is the link.
Max and Bernie remind me of the old joke about Louisiana politics that Charlie Cook always like to tell:
The only way you are going to get a politican out of office in Louisiana is if they get caught with a live boy or a dead girl.
I have the feeling that it will be till death do us part with Max and Bernie. Which is too bad since the FIA and FOM really need some new blood and ideas to figure out this mess F1 is in.
The 2008 car has more downforce and has evolved over a number of years so is much more optimised than the 2009 version. I wouldn't read too much into the actual times but the 2009 car is designed to be slower than the 2008.
i thought it was broadcast live last year?.... i'm sure i watched it on eurosport. it might not have been live though..
That wasn't live. It was delayed by... a week or so.
oohh ok. :)
Does anyone know when/if the BBC are doing an F1 preview? Mum got worried when she couldn't find it in the Christmas edition of the Radio Times.
it's really bad quality but
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ebp5SYEGUIQ&feature=related
i haven't heard anything about it. neither have i heard about a season review program. I swear ITV did one last year, but i suppose them loosing the coverage for 09 might effect them doing this years.
ITV have the rights until the end of the year, so presumably there's a review of Lewis's season still to come.
:D
ahh, that'll do. ta.
steve said he was gonna let the man out of the suitcase one more time, i think on new years eve?
So they really are leaving it to the last minute, then?
check out this madness:
http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/2008/12/donuts-in-tv-studio-what-could-possibly.html
That is crazy on a surface like that.
Heee! I love SternTV. After Schumacher retired they had this special show and it finished with Schumi, Mika, a junior Kart champion and I think Günther Jauch himself (not sure about that) having a kart race in the studio.
they have spoken
Ban on refueling for 2010. I think I like
"Possible reduction in race distance or duration (proposal to follow market research)."
hmmm
The World Motor Sport Council met in Monaco on 12 December 2008. The following decisions were taken:FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP The following measures to reduce costs in Formula One have been agreed by the World Motor Sport Council. These proposed changes have the unanimous agreement of the Formula One teams, who have played a major role in their development. The FIA is grateful to the Formula One Teams’ Association (FOTA) and its Chairman Luca di Montezemolo for their incisive contribution.2009Engine• Engine life to be doubled. Each driver will use a maximum of eight engines for the season plus four for testing (thus 20 per team).• Limit of 18,000 rpm.• No internal re-tuning. Adjustment to trumpets and injectors only.• The three-race rule voted on 5 November remains in force.• Cost of engines to independent teams will be approximately 50% of 2008 prices.• Unanimous agreement was reached on a list of proposed changes to the Renault engine for 2009; all other engines will remain unchanged. Comparative testing will not be necessary.Testing• No in-season testing except during race weekend during scheduled practice.Aerodynamic research• No wind tunnel exceeding 60% scale and 50 metres/sec to be used after 1 January 2009.• A formula to balance wind tunnel-based research against CFD research, if agreed between the teams, will be proposed to the FIA.Factory activity• Factory closures for six weeks per year, to accord with local laws.Race weekend• Manpower to be reduced by means of a number of measures, including sharing information on tyres and fuel to eliminate the need for “spotters”.Sporting spectacle• Market research is being conducted to gauge the public reaction to a number of new ideas, including possible changes to qualifying and a proposal for the substitution of medals for points for the drivers. Proposals will be submitted to the FIA when the results of the market research are known.Note: It is estimated that these changes for 2009 will save the manufacturer teams approximately 30% of their budgets compared to 2008, while the savings for independent teams will be even greater.2010Power train• Engines will be available to the independent teams for less than €5 million per team per season. These will either come from an independent supplier or be supplied by the manufacturer teams backed by guarantees of continuity. If an independent supplier, the deal will be signed no later than 20 December 2008.• This same engine will continue to be used in 2011 and 2012 (thus no new engine for 2011).• Subject to confirmation of practicability, the same transmission will be used by all teams.Chassis• A list of all elements of the chassis will be prepared and a decision taken in respect of each element as to whether or not it will remain a performance differentiator (competitive element).• Some elements which remain performance differentiators will be homologated for the season.• Some elements will remain performance differentiators, but use inexpensive materials.• Elements which are not performance differentiators will be prescriptive and be obtained or manufactured in the most economical possible way.Race weekend• Standardised radio and telemetry systems.• Ban on tyre warmers.• Ban on mechanical purging of tyres.• Ban on refueling.• Possible reduction in race distance or duration (proposal to follow market research).Factory activity• Further restrictions on aerodynamic research.• Ban on tyre force rigs (other than vertical force rigs).• Full analysis of factory facilities with a view to proposing further restrictions on facilities.Longer termThe FIA and FOTA will study the possibility of an entirely new power train for 2013 based on energy efficiency (obtaining more work from less energy consumed). Rules to be framed so as to ensure that research and development of such a power train would make a real contribution to energy-efficient road transport.An enhanced Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) system is likely to be a very significant element of an energy-efficient power train in the future. In the short term, KERS is part of the 2009 regulations, but is not compulsory. For 2010 FOTA is considering proposals for a standard KERS system. The FIA awaits proposals.A number of further amendments were adopted for the 2009 and 2010 Sporting and Technical Regulations. Full details will be available shortly on www.fia.com.
Ok...that didn't work...
I not like
it depends what they mean by that....if its like 5 minutes, 10 maximum, then it wont bother me too much. but if its more then i wont be happy
Wow. There's a lot of information in there.
I don't like this whole 'Teams agreeing with the FIA' thing. Whatever happened to the ol' cloak and dagger!!
hehe.
so important bits for next year are:
- 1,000 less rpm for engines
- engine life doubled
- no in-season testing
- factories to close for 6 weeks per year
i'm gutted about missing out on in season testing this year. it's going to hurt silverstone's profits too isn't it? three days of corporate boxes out of the window, plus gate prices and stalls.
so... given the full press release, how many f1 minutes will there be this evening?
Oh, you underestimate me :)
You missed the maximum of 20 engines to be used!
If you end up with a BMW bomb like engine *Williams say they had around 150 fail int heir first year* what happens? Once you have used your 20 thats it? No mroe F1 for you this season?
important bits for 2010 are:
- looks like mclaren can supply fif1 engines, so long as they cost less than EUR 5m
- standardised radio comms, means we should be able to hear everyone
- refuelling to be banned
good point, not a clue? what if someone sticks white powder in them?
What's: Ban on mechanical purging of tyres.
I belive it's using a vacuum pump to suck the air out of tyres and then inflating with nitrogen or the special secret gas that Ferrari uses - aka Carbon Dioxide ;)
:D
presumably shutting the factories will happen at the end of the season? or will some of that happen during the summer break?
How about the standard chassis in 2010 as well?
I do like the clause for the standard engine. If you don't want to use it you need an engine deal by 20 december this year! Genius
Oh, and the joy of if it's practical - then all teams will use a standard gearbox.
The best bit for me is... 2010 - BAN ON REFUELING! Hoo-bloody-ray! Finally!
I can't help it of the FIA are inept at hiding the secrets. :D
see, i quite like refuelling. nice to see 'em have another go at banning tyre warmers. i guess with no in-season testing that could go ahead now.
red bull must be chuffed that renault are allowed to sort out their engine.
Standard engine, standard gearbox, standard chassis.
Now I'm right back to switching off again.
That bit made me cringe - so Renault are the only team allowed to modify their engine. Anyone else think they will underestimate the power increases for each mod they want to do and end up wiht the most powerful engine in F1?
tis true. 2009 could be our last season following f1.
what about toyota's? they said they haven't made many changes and they didn't get faster at the end of the year either.
I don't like this idea of a tyre warmer ban, anybody ever tried getting round a corner with 20 other guys on icey cold slick tyres? The money saved will have to be spent on the 16 tons of carbon fibre it takes to create one of those front wings.
Plus how does no refuelling save money? The rigs already exist, the guy who does it also has another job in the team, believe it or not refuelling is not his only job, and it will mean tyres are worn out faster due to running a heavier car. Bad idea.
the argument put forward before, was no other series use them.
but the teams said they'd still use them for testing. i guess now they have no argument.
anyone know if the drivers have been consulted on these proposals? nothing in here seems to help them, only costs for teams.
Again, the tyre warmers already exist, it would cut the cost of starting a new team, but as if tyre warmers are a great expense, how many sets does each car need? Just seems to be taking away something for the sake of it.
Also - if the engine life is doubling...why are they only 3 race engines?Surely it should be 4 race engines?
Probably have a set of tyre warmers for every set of tyres. Could be 30 sets per team.
why would they have a set for every set of tyres?
Nooooooooooooooooooo!
(I don't think I put enough o's in my 'no')...
After reading Steve Matchett's biography I'm pretty sure the mechanics'll love the ban on re-fueling (because it's pretty dangerous and a pain in the arse for them) but for the spectator it bring SO MUCH to a race!
What the hell have we got to look forward to during a processional race? The only light at the end of the tunnel during a boring GP is predicting fuel strategies. I'm gutted.
So every set of tyres is ready to be used just in case it rains or punctures or whatever...
no idea. will you join us in a 2010 boycott :D
I'm with ya.
Well, there was that one Indy 500 just after the the CHampcar/ IRL split, where there was "not really completely unpredicitable" cold weather above Indy, and because they did not have any tyre warmers, the temperatures would never get high enough to get the tyres properly inflated, the the rims would run on the round and a car would spin out and crash. And this was on the 4 parade laps befroe teh actual race
started.
The race started with 8 cars missing from the field of 33 and in single file, did about 8 laps until there was a real crash (rookie hitting the wall) and the caution was out and the tyres could not workand some one else crash while the crews where still cleaning up the first crash.
I do not think that champcar ever recovered from that diaster, which becasue of flukey weather, showed IRL to be teh superior product.
Just as I am getting used to no ads, now it looks like no racing!
Standard this and standard that.......standard answers in press conferences, etc........
I know there HAS to be a statto there somewhere, can anyone tell me how many cars were out of races because they stalled the engines and/or were beached?
Just something I have been thinking about. Why not have starters in the cars? that would help with the "Illegal assistance" in races rule. if they can start their own cars, why not get a little push out of the kitty litter? more cars finishing has the potential for more racing, surely.
I like the idea of no refuelling though. one less thing to go boom in the pits.
and didnt they try the no tyre blankets before?
(Sorry for the catch up lol)
Hmmm, I would if reducing the race distances means that F1 is goint to take a look at the size of everyone's current fuel tank, and set the distance of each race equal to the distance that can be run on the smallest sized fuel tank plus a reserve of say 10% just to ensure no one runs out of gas? It would be very embrassing to the FIA if Hamilton loses his title for the sole reason that he runs out of gas in the last corner of the last lap.
Of course, this means that each track could easily be reduced by two thirds of the current race distance of each track, but hey, the teams will not have to rebuild there cars to allow for the increased fuel tank....
Of course, we do not know the Fuel burn rate at Abu Dhubi yet, so there is still the possibily that at least one front runner will run out of gas there, but with the same chassis, same engine, same tyres, it could just as easily be the entire field running out of gas.
I for one, would die of laughing so hard....
i guess on the plus side, we'd have more time sunday afternoon's to spend panelling :)
If these same people have to work out how long each race will be distance wise, the enitre field is going to run out gas in the 1st race for sure....
Why for the FIA?
It is there stupid rule its it not? Like these guys realy do have fuel conservation in the back of their minds as much as say the Paris-Dakar or Baja boys or even the IRL/Champcar boys, and all these series allow refuelling....
It is rather funny that if the FIA is so concerned about expenses for the teams, in which many of these expenses directly go to the racing, the FIA has expenses like grid girls who do absolutely nothing to the actual racing and in accounting terms (Correct me if I am wrong here Christine) are a sunk cost and need to be gotten rid of first and foremost.
But then Max will have to hunt further for his night-time friends...
Santander is cutting jobs:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7780069.stm
Still very keen on F1 though.
I don't think it is a stupid rule. I hope it will mix up the strategies a bit. For example this season Ferrari took ages to get the tyres on temperature - Mclaren on the other hand got them working pretty fast but especially Lewis used them up pretty quickly, I don't know if that means that Ferrari can do a tyre stop less than McLaren, but it should at least throw them out of sync.
And running out of fuel is embarrassing for the team not for the FIA.
Just a tick
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
cough
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Refuelling is a part of F1 as Everton are to the premeir league, it may not be liked, but hell, it makes things interesting.
Reduction is race lengths is stupid, who hates having a good 90+ minute race (aside from Valencia).
Basically I hate the new suggestions, and whilst we do need to cut costs, these are not the way to go.
I want to watch Formula 1, not bloody Formula Renault
Sounds like another one for our boycott :)
I love that line I wrote. And yes, and protesting at the FIA headquaters and I'll be there quicker than you can say sidepodboycott
we know the way now :)
I don't recommend driving there though.
Dare I even ask who was navigating? ;)
i vote not the g-phone...
Oooh. Just opened my post and a mate has sent me a disk with all the Red Bulletins's in PDF on it.
Shame I have most of them in paper form.
http://drop.io/sidepodcast
;)
It is embrassing to the FIA when the championship is decided by a refueling ban. Becasue you will have the farce of a whole bunch of cars running out of gas on the final and rundown laps.
It has already happened before, in Champcar, and the overseerers took the blame becasue they underratted the amount of fuel per lap the new track would require and while the leader of the race ran out gas and parked their cars to localized yellows, The guy in fourh place and a lap down, was able to unlap himeself go another lap at caution speed and run out of gas himself on the way to victory lane behind the middle of the pit lap....
The guy in first place needed that first place finish to win the championship...They scored him around 13th.
As for race strategies, well if the tire regus have not changed, I cna not see how the teams can do anyhting but go hard tyres at the start, and soft at the end of the race. Whne you make the seitch to soft is at the point you know the hards would be worn down completely. This gives you the freshest soft tyres where the car is at its lightest possible. Boy that mix up the strategies a bit. so is that lap 35, 36, 37, or 38?
What it means is that it has to be done manually. Which means the teams need one person to spend their life inflating and deflating tyres.
I never thought I would see it. Good news
That was my firt thought when I read that there is no need for comparative testing before they can use the engine. Had it been Ferrari in that position I would have ben seriously woried by that comment.
It means they dont have to ship 20 refueling rigs round the world.
or... bad news :)
so insist cars should be manually refuelled using the hand tankards. they're safe enough to use in the garages.
I hate re-fueling. In fact I hate pit stops. I want to see the drivers having to pass the car in front to take his position. I hate the idea that a driver can be gaining positions because his strategy has him on an entirely different part of the track to the drivers he is 'racing'. To use an example I have used 100 times before. One year at Imola Schumacher went from 12th to 2nd and only passed one car on the track. That is not motor racing.
the problem with a lack of refuelling is that f1 racing runs the perennial risk of being dull, and standardisation will only make it worse.
take away all the variables and you're left with an expensive scalextric set.
it was bloody impressive, and clearly memorable.
I can't tell you the numbers but I know from a couple of spins in FFords which have starters that starting an engine after a spin is no easy thing because as the car spins all sorts of odd things happen to the engine and unless you can get it pointing in the right direction with some momentum left and start it by popping the clutch you have to let it sit for a couple of minutes before it will start and by that time the marshals will have you out of the car even if you stick your hand in their face while your other hand operates the starter.
It used to happen in the 80s when the fuel tanks of the turbos were shrunk season after season. The drivers used to have a guage that told them their fuel burn rate. If they were plus they could speed up a bit and if it was minus they had to slow down until it said they had enough fuel to make the end of the race. That was embarrassing. Especially for someone like Senna whose odd throttle pumping in corners used more fuel than almost any other driver. We had a set of rules which penalised one of the two best drivers on the grid. Stupid or what?
So you think you won't get lost again.
635mb.... You sure?
According to Autosport - the paper version - Anthony Davidson tested Peugeot's 908 thingamybob sportscar last month. So maybe Franck will have a new team mate next season.
I for one, am going to to say that you are a bit smaerter than that and realize that as the cars do not have enough on-board tankage to make it though an entire race weekend, thus refuelling the car at some point must happen. Now assume that there is nothing wrong with the idea of having a racing car fuelled to teh brink in shippment (doubtful) how does the extra fuel get shipped in? Oh, look, I happen to have last year refuelling rig with me, how fortunate!
I am afraid that you are not going to save any money on the lack of refueling rig.
Under years of refueling bans, I would say that this fuel burn rate meter is more important than the techometer. Kovie can easily beat Hamilton in each race next year as he is slow enough to be saving gallons of fuel by the end of the race...
Now you are a hypocrite! You just gave the best reason for stopping the refueling ban. In Fighter pilot speak, "you can not mix'em up when you fuel state goes bingo".
absolutely.
yay. what a line up :)
The cars can be refuelled without the expensive rigs if they are fuelled before they go out. The fuel tanks would have to be increased but that will increase the drag and make them less aerodynamically perfect which has to be a good thing. If the cars are not being re-fueled during pit stops there is no need for the team to ship a second rig or whatever fuelling device they need.
The rigs only arrived when pit stops became compulsory. Before that we managed quite well without them. While I don't want to see a return to the days when fuel was poured from a can via a funnel above the driver's head I am sure a device that is massively simpler than the currentrigs can do the job.
As for shipping fuels. That would be done in drums as it is now. The rigs are shipped empty.
I wonder if jenson will get a test now.
Now uploading as a rar file. About 2 and a half hours remaining.
The ban on refuelling may take away the strategy variable but it will add a fuel conservation variable. Some drivers are going to push hard at the start of races, forcing them to drive more defensively towards the end, while others will start at a steadier pace in order to have the option of launching an attack in the final stages. We should see speed variations across the field throughout the race distance, creating more opportunities for overtaking.
Furthermore, drivers won't be able to hold back from making a pass while they wait for the pitstops to come around so we'll see drivers being much less reticent about launching an attack.
If the teams are worried about their cars running out of fuel, then they'll just have to ways of making them fuel effiecient. Perhaps, F1's eco future still has some life in it?
Worst paper ever made suggest that Brundle won't be doing his gridwalks when he joins the BBC next year:
Can't say I blame him. By the end of F1's time on ITV, half of the drivers seemed to be refusing to talk to him. He was usually left with whichever passing dignitary Bernie saw fit to throw into his path.
He didn't seem to like it anyway - but I did. Well, most of the time :-(
i wish F1 was like moto gp in that respect, all the riders talk to suzi. its very frustrating when a grid walk is just that, walking on a grid. rather than actually talking to the drivers.
I really didn't. Used to hide in the kitchen when it started.
excellent, i'm a massive fan of economy runs... no, honestly, i can't get enough of em.
fat and slow f1 machinery. love it.
Actually, the rules on standardised parts weren't nearly as bad as I'd feared (although this is partly another case of Max showing us the really awful option, thus making us grateful for the not-quite-as-awful option).
Independent teams will still be able to choose their own engine supplier, while chassis parts will only become standardised if the teams can agree that they should not be perfomance differentiators. Presumably the teams will want to keep as many parts open to development as possible.
I just enjoy them for the entertainment value. Who knows whats going to happen in the next 5 minutes? I'd be disappointed if we have none next year.
That is precisely the reason have quoted for years.
there will still be stops for tyres right?
so what's the difference?
in fact it takes the same amount of time to change four tyres for each team. at least fuel was variable.
You'd prefer faster cars that no-one bothers to overtake in rather than something resembling a race?
If refuelling is gone, then there's no reason for the races to go on forever, so I guess they can get their way on the shorter duration as well.
we've just had the best two years of f1 racing i can remember?
anyhow, my point is banning refuelling isn't going to make the blindest bit of difference. not one jot. tyres need changing, because a tyre made to last race distance poses safety problems.
banning one of the only variables that could spice up a dull race is utter madness.
i'm voting for 3 and a half minute races.
really the start is the only interesting thing anyway, right? so lets watch that and see who makes it round fastest ;)
Maybe Max will bring in the Moto GP rule that there is a certain period where the drivers have to be on the grid with helmets off for the media. Although personally I hate anything artificial like that. It would be nice if the drivers figured out that they have to put some effort in to promoting the sport and giving their fans something back whether or not they like giving Brundle and the others a minute of their time.
This re-fuelling business: they could still do the same race distances that they currently do couldn't they without enlarging the fuel tanks by much? They'll just have to be more economical with the fuel - as it used to be in the turbo era. Choose when to use the fuel to go fast etc.
DC left too early. If he waited long enough, the race would only be a couple of corners, and he'd have a 100% finishing record!
yes. but why is that an improvement?
I want them banned too. One step at a time.
he seemed to be getting worse...Brazil was the first corner...
The fuel flow rate is regulated and means re-fueling takes a fixed time. Now the pit crews are under pressure to change wheels as fast as possible rather than knowing they have a few seconds to spare. Trouble is we could end up with a race or a championship being decided by someone not putting a wheel nut on properly.
No, no, no and no. If they ban pitstops I'll never watch F1 again. If it wasn't for pitstops, Monaco (in the dry), would be worse than Valencia, banning refuelling is bad enough, pitstops is another matter.
But as a team sport, why is that a bad thing?
agreed but you can vary the amount that goes in.
tyres will take a fixed amount of time to change. i give 'em four races before they're all equal.
Tyres lasted race distances before and can be made to do it again. If someone has a problem you can put in a rule that lets them change it but you limit the number of mechanics who can work on the car to make sure no-one can make routine stops. If only two mechanics can work on the car they will only change the damage tyre or the two rear tyres for example.
the more i think about it, the more i'm convinced 2009 will be my last season.
we still have time to convince them to change their minds though... we need a slogan :)
Max has been suggest races of just under an hour.
they did ALL of that that and still kimi tried to kill jenson. not smart, not smart at all.
1 race per track??
Shorter races though. It won't matter at all.
Get rid of him before I go all the way over to where he lives and kill him.
Same here mate, same here.
Yeah, I'll think about it.
If we get that far, stoopid rear wings.
You are too young to remember when drivers used to be able to pass anywhere. Overtaking used to happen. A lot and without the pit stop nonsense. We just need decent technical regs. In Motor Sport earlier in the season Jackie Stewart talked about a British GP at Silverstone where he and Jochen Rindt disappeared into the distance but changed the lead 30+ times. Would you rather have drivers competing for every corner or following each other and waiting for the pit stops where they may go in in one order and come out in a deifferent order. If you prefer the latter why bother with the race. Why not doe one lap and make a pit stop then another lap and another pit stop then race to the finish.
Racing should be about drivers competing for the same piece of tarmac.
Because I want to see drivers sorting it out on the track.
They had several season of tyre changes and no re-fuelling before and the teams were anything but equal.
Kill him and Bernie. Neither of them will quit ever.
Then why have any mechanics?
To run the cars between sessions. There is absolutely no need to ship the number of people round the world that they currently do.
Yes, but wouldn't it just be annoying if one by one, the drivers conk out because they have ran out of fuel one by one. No winners, awful race, and all because the FIA gave everyone the wrong information. And don't give me any its gonna be short races nonsense, cos if that happens, you won't even see me on here.
In case someone bangs into someone else and wrecks their nose cone.
no, but would you rather watch a race where all the drivers are in single file from lap 1 to lap 60?
much better to host a playstation game on xbox live and have each driver sit on his sofa. it would reduce costs to mere pence. no-one would have to travel and no-one could complain about the environment.
i'll suggest it to mm.
there won't be a here :)
it's all the rage, apparently.
But how easy is it to change the regualtions to bring back that sort of action without compromising saftey?
:D, should have said, any related Formula 1 racing sites.
i'd just like to point out a minor problem :P
you cant play playstation games on xbox live.....its only xbox games on xbox live.... :P
Aside from that, brilliant idea.
Perhaps. Personally, I found that the team element added an awful lot to this years action, and I liked it.
You could just take 'em to the arcades and sit them in those rows of racers.
Whilst the F1 world is on a cost-cutting theme:
What in the name of... What are these things made of? Truffles?
bugger. well it's going to cost some money to make one, and that simply won't do.
that was back in 2007 wasn't it? not sure that goes on any more.
What will be really funny is, if the world economic rises and returns healhy by 2009? Will these measures still carry out, or will it be back to what it was in the last few years?
And what I find most shocking is, Max is aiming to get rid of up to 700 people per team. What, with 9 teams, 6300 will be without a job.
Did he think of that?
true, but they all live in geneva / monaco, and i'm trying not to incur any airmiles, expenses or create any form of greehouse gas (flatulence excluded - cause i've heard lewis has issues).
best i can figure is if everyone sits in a quite room at a predetermined time and "imagines" a really good race. then comes online and discusses it.
Don't know to be honest. Just catching up with various news tit-bits and read it here.
yep, but apparently he's getting a promotion and a company car, so life's just peachy.
I don't see the difference between that and drivers changing positions in the pits. It is the same thing except it is disguised now. Take the disguise off and let's tackle the fundamental problem.
And another thing, why doesn't he just get rid of the pointless Formula 2, that'll free up some cash for Formula 1
F2 costs £195,000 or so which is self-funded by each participating team. So I don't see how that would free up any cash?
Its more entertaining working out when drivers will pit, where drivers will come out, than see cars go round, and round, and round.
Scrap that idea.
How about we sack Herman Tilke and get a current F1 Driver to design tracks?
What's it disguising? 2008 was brilliant.
Even better, just sack Herman Tilke and use good old fashioned tracks.
Oh ok then. Why?
Doesn't do much does it, though could save some teams from losing lots of money
But it doesn't cost any of the F1 teams any money. Except well, Williams who are designing and manufacturing the cars, who should in theory make a profit from it. I'm probably going against the grain of opinion here, but I don't think it's nearly half as bad as people are making it out. If it helps drivers gain their F1 Superlicence in a cost-effective way then this can only be a good thing?
on a more cheerful note, apparently renault have blown an absolute fortune on a secret underground lair:
houses some kind of supercomputer allegedly:
http://www.computerweekly.com/galleries/233832-1/Renault-F1-unveils-new-supercomputer.htm
It has absolutely nothing to do with safety. It has to do with sophisticated aerodynamics and the problem has existed for the best part of 30 years. We need front wings that are a lot less efficient and important than they are now or we need to take the approach espoused by Gilles Villeneuve and rip the wings off and throw them away. Having carbon chassis, crash and rollover structures or any of the other safety features has nothing to do with the racing being poor.
It's not very secret.
agreed. i have no objects to f2. only that f1 appears to be trying to be more like it.
oops.
If it's been around for 30 years, maybe it's not so much of a problem and more of a feature.
:D
True. I think that was more the initial reports that sounded pointless and just another way for Max to compete with Bernie. I can make sense of it now.
Racing should be about appreciating what people have done not guessing what lap they are going to pit
Why?
Or maybe give somebody else a chance?
Why is watching cars go round in circles for x amount of laps more exciting than pit stop and the strategies.
It was brilliant compared to recent seasons. The standard it is being compared to is not that high.
Several of you have said that if certain changes happen you won't watch any more. I remember people saying the same thing when turbos were banned because anything without turbos wasn't F1.
I remember people saying that when ground effect aerodynamics were banned because anything without them was not F1.
I remember people saying that when active suspension was banned because anything without that was not F1.
etc etc etc. What we have now is a massively watered down version of what F1 was. There are people who quit the sport a couple of decades ago who would say the current proposals are window dressing changes compared to the major changes made in the past.
why can't racing be about both, like it is now?
we appreciated massa's move on lewis into turn one (hungary) for example, and also, we enjoyed pat's masterful stroke to get alonso ahead of kubica in fuji.
Alonso looks so incredibly happy in photo number 2
you are so, so very wrong sir. for me this season was the best i've witnessed since i started watching f1 (and that was senna v. mansell days).
I love the moment when, after you have no clue what a team is doing with the strategy, it finally clicks and they come out in front of the driver they were racing.
pure genius.
Surely you can agree that winning races by racing is more exicting then winning races by strategy though?
Drag will only increase if the teams change any dimension of the car's length, width or height. It is just as possible to find a smaller driver and squeeze the cockpit smaller to accomindate her (right speeling) with the extra space now avaible to make the fuel tank bigger. By going with a smaller driver, Weight of the car might increase or it might decrease, but this will effect the downforce of the car more than the drag.
Induced drag is a function of the speed of the car, faster the car goes the more drag is developed. "Normal" drag is as "me" knows only to well, is resistance to applied work, which is casued by the surface area of the car blocking the relative airflow around the car and actually has very little total effect once the exponenetal induced drag is added.
I am not quite sure that the idea of using a mechanical or hand pump and hose method to transfer the fuel from the fuel drums to the car's tank is not in keeping with the image of F1 attmepting to protray as the top of motorsport. Especially as most armies used a similar method of refueling their vehicles from the first world war up to 1992.....
However, on the low-tech approach, I would love to see someone siphon the fuel from the drum to the fuel tank.
I am pretty sure there was more to the rig than you let on about. It proabably had a ton of anti-trapering devices on it that do not come with your run of the mill fuel drum.
I concur with Steven Roy. I'm not going to dismiss these changes and declare myself out of F1 without actually seeing what happens first. Problem is, folk don't like change, but unfortunately F1 can't carry on as it is. This is a dawning of a new era in F1, and who knows, it might be for the best in the long run?
(this coming from the most pessimistic person on the planet!)
The problem is sponsors like wings and teams like them because it is far easier for them to tell a sponsor that they can have a wing rather than trying to define an area on th car. I have always believed the problem could be solved easily with the right tech regs. Of course the whole thing would have been a lot easier if the first time someone turned up to scrutineering with wings on their car if the scrutineers had told them it was a car race and not a plane race and the wings had been banned outright.
why does it have to be one or the other?
Wouldn't you rather sit in awe as Franck or Seb pulled off and incredible overtake than sit and guess what lap they were going to pit on?
Change is fine, but I've never been interested in standard-spec series.
The rear wing is change and I don't like it, but it's not actually going to make me switch off, because I am curious about it.
Standard chassis doesn't interest me in the slightest.
Both.
i'm not saying i'm bailing now. but my interest is certainly waning.
these people change their minds every ten minutes anyhow. but if things stay as proposed, i'll likely take up an alternate sunday afternoon hobby this time next year.
Please not golf.
but that isn't going to happen just because they take away the refuelling is it? the cars will be slower and heaver for starters.
If the cars are able to run close enough to each other to challenge for position it is an awesome spectacle. I just don't get what is interesting about pitstops. They were introduced to create position changes because Max was unable or unwilling to make the changes to the tech regs that would let us get proper racing.
cricket?
Nout wrong with golf :P Well nothing wrong with playing it, watching it is a different story.
How about darts?
my god it's fugly though. still hasn't grown on me. may never grow on me.
especially not fugly ones.
The trouble is now there is too much guessing and not enough on track action. I want more great moves and fewer guessing games.
oooh, maybe.
hehe.
Better than when Senna and Prost were team mates?? You have got to be joking.
Finally someone talking sense.
:D
i'm serious. i loved this season to bits. i loved 2007 too, although the politics wore me down.
See, part of me wants F1 to be the pinnacle of motor sports and engineering, but then watching GP2, F3 etc where they more-or-less have the same spec cars hasn't been any less entertaining to me. Racing is racing, plus I have nothing else to do on a Sunday afternoon :-D
It shouldn't, and in a perfect world it wouldn't, but if the win has more to do with being on the right tyres, rather than an awesome overtake, then surely thats less excting to the spectator?
Teams have always wanted small drivers so that is nothing new.
Okay, but do you want yet another GP2 series? Surely it's better that F1 is different.
I agree but the fuelling will be done out of the site of the public so it should not be a problem.
Because if you have pit stops and strategies the drivers won't be on the same part of the track and if they are they will wait until after their pit stop before they make a move.
Baby animals?
But then F1 should in theory boast the best drivers and the best technical bods in the business? It's like comparing the Premiership to the other lower football leagues. Still the same game being played, just a little bit better.
That is not necessarily as bad as you think. One o the reasons overtaking is difficult now is because the cars are too fast for the tracks. Cut the downforce, increase the weight and give them full race distance tyres and braking distances go up and overtaking becomes easier.
I thought it was a great season as well but you have to look at it in context. Had this season happened in 1990 after two seasons of Prost and Senna as team mates would be have been so excited by it. I don't think so.
I don't know a lot about football, but I can't imagine I'd watch a lower team play if the Premiership is the same but better.
Was that season just about those two then? Cos I quite like how this season involved everybody.
Same ball but the better players and teams are better to watch than those a division or two lower.
i need cheering up:
http://www.sun7news.com/flash.php?videoCode=26b2do9OC1hjk11MC260
there is a point to this. am looking at new ways to customise our sidepodplayer for when sites like blogf1 embed our vids. not sure if it's possible for us to do something like this, but i love the way it even speaks christine's name near the end.
clever stuff.
You are so stupid.
I'm sure I've seen that photo before. Isn't that where Tinky Winky lives?
The two of them were so much better than anyone else and in 1988 McLaren built a car (MP4/4) that was massively better than anything wlse on the grid. They won 15 of the 16 races and only missed out in Italy because Prost had a technical failure and Senna had an Accident trying to lap someone while leading with a couple of laps to go. It was amazing to watch.
The easiest way to have a season involving everyone in a spec formula.
you don't approve?
i can't make it stop autoplaying... help!
Hardly. Single spec means it's all the same thing going round. This year they were all different and competitive in so many different ways. Some started well and tailed off, others got better at the end. It was super competitive without being drivers in the same machinery. I couldn't have asked for more. Except Valencia.
:D
it is....ish...
however that appeared during one of the most sentimental parts of the episode of west wing we're watching lol.
Cos I wanna see a video with Christine's turkey legs written on it.
sorry!
can't.make.it.stop.
oh.
Banzai-ing you way up the field which the car is the least fuel effienicient is a sure way of running out of gas at the end of the race, Mark, beside doing wonders to your tyres.
You are making the assumation that the track allows you to pass. While there are tracks that it could be possible at well known locations to pass, I pretty sure that the other driver will be espically on guard in these few areas.
However, unless you want to Senna/Schumacher somebody, please tell all the drivers where a passing spot exists in Monaco, and Hungary for that matter.
What do you propose? Engine changes? Ooops! Engine freeze. Chassis Depolyment? Frozen. Personally the only thing I can think of that will not upset the teams too much is to over-inflate the tires. Heck what happen to the crazy gearbox proposal the one where you could not change the geat settings?
Until 2013, the easiest way for F1 to become more fuel efficinet is to get rid of every driver they have for lighter, smaller drivers. The space they save can used to make the fuel tank bigger. 20 hopeless Japanese Drivers in F1? Do you want this? Sato one of the two best drivers? Nakajima the other?
have removed the embed and swapped it for a link. much apologies.
lol its ok, i found it funny.
Wouldn't it have been better if everyone was competitive at every race? OK that is never going to happen but you could have the top 8 or 10 being competitive every race. Imagine 5 drivers fighting for the lead in the last corner and the fifth guy finishing less than a second off the lead and no-one knowing who would win until the last few yards. You may think that could never happen but it did. Monza 1971
Titanium
Does it have a prancing pony on the front of it?
Better idea. :D
Shocked the crap out of me - had my earpieces in listenign o a DVD and all of a sudden that blasted through...
I have no doubt it could happen. It does concern me that I wouldn't know what was going on. I hate watching qualifying and having to wait until it's over to find out who was victorious. With five drivers going round the last corner at the same time, it'd be the same idea. By all means fight for position, but I don't want it to end up a rugby scrum.
Theres an easy way to solve the whole racing issue, just set the clock back to about 15-30 years ago, take the cars and the circuits they used (add in the old nuermberg ring)
DONE!
it's a competition. it's about winning and losing. some people are better than honda, just the way life is.
For some reason the video took a while to load for me then he sound kept playing even after I refreshed the browser.
I love the idea of the video and you can imagine some kid's reaction to something like that with his/her name in it.
Surely the advantage of sport over any scripted activitiy is that you don't know what is going to happen.
Absolutely. I don't want it scripted. I also don't want to be confused.
Your logic is faulty. While the flow rate was fixed the fuel stop would still vary because some teams would short fill sometimes or cars would come in early and take more fuel on, but to change tires would take about 4 seconds becasue after the five thousand time of doing the same thing, they would have down pat and do the same time in their sleep. The refuellers have to be awake to remember how much fuel needs to go in.
And I do remember many cases of pit stop crews and the entire pit crew at Williams needs to be shot, repeatedly, for screwing up and it is a fault of a tyreman just as much as a refueller.
Has anyone ever seen a jackman screw up? They are usually victums (especially is your driver is Nakajima) but they never seem to cause a mistake.
Even I don't agree with that. I like the idea that we don't slaughter drivers any more. So I need the racing to be safe. The Nurburgring is a great circuit but it should have been out of F1 a decade or more before it was. There are certainly some of the older more interesting circuits that the calendar would benefit particularly if the finance were sorted.
I agree but it is a question of how big the gap has to be. If all the teams were given identical cars the same teams more or less would be at the front.
Ok, so we make the cars safe, put some armco in, make it all safe, no-one dies.
Will you join my GP series now?
The amount of fuel is set before the it stop. All the re-fuelers have to do is react to a light that tells them that no more fuel is flowng.
I remember seeing a Lotus (I think) heading down the pit lane with the rear jack still attached.
You talked me into it
Yey!!
In exchange for the £1 million it costs to join my series you will get a free hat and a packet of haribo.
Anyone else?
What kind of haribo? :P
ah damn, wanted to go to testing this year. ah well.
see, i have a little problem with this. I like fuel strategies, i like the fact that if you have a safety car it messes up the order... i like f1 as it is. For the first time since i have started watching it i have felt that nothing really needs to be changed as i like it as it is, and then they go and mess it all up again!
:( i'm not sure what to think or do... think i'll see how this season pans out before i start judging 2010.
I feel sad that after such a great season that it may come to that :( we still have to start the '09 season yet... maybe wait until it's started before making plans about dropping the sport.
wha? :( Max has to go... sooner rather than later.
huh?
you'd give up motorsport for darts!?
Like you say, we like F1 as it is. Change can be good, but it can also be bad, so never say never.
Plus, with darts, there's always the possibility of a pint :)
Remember that the F1 races round the Nurburgring were in much older and less safe cars. I think it could be interesting to see a race there again. The biggest problem will be that the drivers are likely to be overtaken by a German woman driving a Transit van ;)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=snKml_XtlOI
What ever type you want :)
hehe
I'm in!
Single tyre race, one McLaren hurtling towards a Honda, things get scary.
Not the sour ones.
It's a deal if it is Starmix
Well, Steven, If I recall we had pit stops and refuelling back then. However, seat beats where banned for good reason as being unsafe, cars had no wings what so ever, or super weak wings that would snap from the amount of downforce would exceed the amount the supports could handle, the best safety barrier at the side of the track was a box of hay, the others being tyres, trees or steel guardrails.
Seat beats where unsafe back then as it was thought better to be thrown clear for the flamming wreck of the car as each car was a gas tank on wheels with an engine there was going to be a 99.999% chance of the car going up in flames if it crashed. Heck even Jackie Stewart almost drowned in the amount of fuel he was covered in in that crash at Spa. But this overtaking of which you speak happened in a time when the tracks where evil, sort man from the boys tracks before they where all neutered with chicanes.
You want overtaking? give the cars a chance to slipstream. Get rid of both sets of wings and the chicanes That's all you need.
I'll buy you 2 packets!! You know its worth it, £1,000,000 for a GP season of old cars and tracks and 2 packets of haribo!!
I think the ban on in season testing is stupid. Teams will only spend the money on simulation etc. It is also tough on the circuits that have spent a fortune providing testing facilities. The people in Portugal whose test circuit is due to hold its first test this month must be thrilled.
Does that mean i only get the one packet because i signed earlier?
I vote for that
but darts? why not something like tennis, or another form of motorsport? it just seems a little bit of huge jump ;)
The biggest problem is that the cars would shake themselves to bits before the first lap was completed. Remember all th restrictions put on Nick Heidfeld before he did his demo lap.
That's kinda the point, I think. A fresh start :)
I always have the btcc to fall back on. :)
I'm sorry, you've been "FIA'd"
That is what I have been saying amongst other things. It is also what Gilles Villeneuve said and he has been dead for 26 years so you know how long there has been a problem.
I bet you have a shop with a two for the price of one deal and you are trying to con me.
ooh right.
I watch F1 in full knowledge that the FIA run it, BUT i watch BTCC for some proper racing
But are there any French darts players?
oh
No idea. I've only ever heard of Phil "The Power" Taylor. He's definitely not French. Or attractive.
I have never seen a French darts player and when I worked in the Ukraine with a bunch of Frenchman I had an incredibly difficult job trying to explain the game to them. It must have taken a week of playing before they got the grip of it.
Well, there are no french dart players in the PDC Order of merit, but in the BDO/WDF, the highest ranked dartsman is a chap called Cyril Blot
The guy - (on the left) http://accel22.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/1/37/36/62/Divers/Elite.JPG
If you are thinking of switching to darts you should know that it has two rival world championships. A bit like the CART / IRL nonsense.
if i'm honest (i'm in a little bit of a bad mood btw, and i don't mean this in an aggressive way or anything :( ) i'm a little disappointed that most people seem to have given up on the 2010 season already. We have not even finished the '09 season yet. I agree that it's not sounding great, but a lot can happen in a year, and the FIA are constantly changing their minds. I say, lets watch the '09 season with an open mind, yes it may be crap and a disappointment, but it could also be a surprise. I'm not saying i agree with any of the changes but i am saying why start talking about how rubbish the season in a years time is gonna be, and how you will probably not be watching/ following it? it could end up spoiling anything that is good about the '09 season.
I'm really trying to think optimistically, cause atm F1 is looking pretty bleak.
this probably makes no sense or is complete rubbish, sorry, am feeling a little bit down today.
It could. But also, it's led to some great debates today about refuelling and pit stops. We're completely open to the fact that as ever, the FIA may be presenting worst case scenario. I'm certainly not writing off 2009 ('cept for the fact it'll be fugly). We're not making any decisions about '10, but simply saying with what's come out today, it doesn't seem like an attractive proposition to us. Other people are strongly disagreeing, and I love it :)
Oh dear. That's not great, is it. Rugby has two as well, doesn't it?
to be honest, I don't think many people will stop watching f1 in 2010, unless there really is no racing, and it is a proper procession.
i'm excited....ish.....
lets just get 2009 out the way first before we start thinking about the year after. 2010 seems an aweful long way away right now
Yup, League and Union.
sorry, as i said or meant to say, it's probably just me being stupid, it's been one of those days y'see.
Only if the cars and drivers are competitive on an equal basis. Fat chance of that. from 200 - 2005 it was a case we better have a strategy in place or else even the teammate of M. Schumacher does not stand a chance a winning a race.
Then there was that horrible year where if you where not a McLaren fan, even your race strategy was reduced to the two McLaren drivers taking themselves out. Think about that going an entire season knowing thtat they best you can do is third.
I never respected Mansell after he became World Championship Driver? How do you not win if you have the Williams FW14B and your teammate is Patrasse? Now, how do you race against that? Really?
Or a Mercedes W196 back in its day? Really you're better off not showing up for the race....
F1 is about winning. Pure and simple, but if you can not outrace him, you had better outthink him.
Not a problem. Always want more opinions. That's what we're here for :)
You could choose football. Choose a English team from random and support them
:(
I don't think you should mension that F word when Christines around :P
Absolutely. Never a dull race.
BTCC is my favourite racing series, for close racing, it is second to none!
Even the race 1 at Croft Circuit in torrential rain and abandoned after 4 laps after one of the marshalls got injured?
Worse still I was there watching it and it was flipping freezing, rained like buckets. But still enjoyed it massively.
Weren't the other 2 races amazing though?
Aye, got a great standing place as well. Right next to the track and ended up chatting to the marshalls, pit lane was open, what other series offer them?
I think you have to be optimistic. Every major change that has ever been made to F1 has been greeted with a knee jerk reaction that it is bad and F1 isn't F1 any more and in the end the vast majority of people who threaten to never watch another rce never actually miss one. Even if we have on or two bad seasons there will still be somethings that happened to fire our enthusiasm.
Jealous. :)
Well yes and no. It has two different games. Rugby Union with 15 players and rugby league with 13 on a team.
I won paddock passes to Thruxton last year. It was amazing. Possiby the best race meeting i've been too.
Yes but you are only talking about the front of the grid. Don't get me wrong I want to see the lead being disputed but if the tech regs were right even if one team had an advantage you could still have races going on right through the field.
But haven't you just been saying that F1 is just a weak imitation of what it used to be? Surely that means the changes have been bad.
With league being better...
:D
I (well, my dad) won tickets for Croft, first meeting I've been too, and hoping to go again next year. Just hope it isn't as heavy rain
I think it has been a good year as was last year with a lot to keep our attention. I simply believe it could easily be a lot better and a lot more entertaining. People who are new to the sport should not need to study for two years to understand a race.
Not exactly
Well since in practice F1 does not have the best drivers to boast about then it appears that its selling point appears to be the best technical bods in the business. Like I said at one time, the top F1 car was 7 seconds a lap faster than the top then the best Indycar at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, so all other factors where equal and we had a straight fight between the two series, which just showcased the technical excellence of F1.
Now with these crap regs F1 has no longer the best drivers or the best bods, and with less techical bods than NASCAR, and way more passing in NASCAR, (due to drafting) not driver skill, what is keeping me here?
I was going to write at the bottom of my explanation post about Rugby "league fans think league is better and union fans think union is better...so just stay indifferent...."
but you took the words right out my mouth...
;), rules are better, more flowing, much more exciting.
Thats a scary thought, NASCAR more entertaining than F1, and probably will be.
I just did a quick check and after the Honda story died down most daily posts get about 100 comments. Today's discussion already has over 300. So some good is coming from Max's ideas.
Although some of it was about darts.
Oops. :)
With everything being the same, how does one get a perfromance advantage to overtake? The only thing I can see is that the cars will be doing thier uttermost to hold station, lap after lap? come in for fresh tyres every ten laps?
And who says that the front wings will be able to get enough downforce behind another car to make sidestreaming battles possible? I do not think that has been tested out yet.
The rules need to be evolved until you get to that point. With Max in control it will take forever to get there but i would be happy to see a couple of steps in the right direction.
But it was Max's ideas that got us on to darts. The one thing I have learned about sidepodcast is that the subject does not matter. All that matters is that the conversation takes place.
"the subject does not matter. All that matters is that the conversation takes place" Steven Roy 12th December 2008
I may quote you at some point to sound really smart!!
Thanks :P
You could choose football. Choose a English team from random and support them {R.G. - 8 comments ago}
Just don't pick Nottingham Forest - my boss supports them, and he keeps grumbling because they've won something like 2 matches out of the last 20.
Very true.
As for the rules, I haven't studied them in detail but I do have one suggestion.
Could the FIA and FOTA please attend some classes in basic mathematics?
In the season we've just had, they lasted 2 races each.
The engines will last twice as long in 2007 as in 2008. So engines will last 2 x 2 = 4 races each.
Drivers get four engines. So engine life in total is 4 x 4 = 16 races.
Number of races in the calender? 17.
Oops.
By the way, what is the maximum e-mail attachment size you can accept? I don't know how long my season review is going to be yet.
To be honest, I don't know. If you give it a go, we're bound to have various options should it be too big.
There is something that is just wrong with me entertaining the idea that if we are rich enough, anyone one of us can take a Veyron on the Nordschleife to speeds undreamt of all F1 drivers bar Button. And even that chicken broke 400 km/h on the salt flats od a desert with nothing to hit for miles.
Back to school to master some basic fly swatting technques would pay off in the long run , me....
And on re-reading the press release, I've just figured out I've got the engine figures wrong, but that what they've actually done is even more confusing.
- Engine life will be doubled. This indicates a four-race engine.
- Each driver will use a maximum of eight engines for the season.... This indicates that it is OK to have two-race engines for most of the season as long as there is a three-race run on the same engine at some point.
- ...plus four for testing (thus 20 per team). This is where the maths really falls over. (8 + 4) x 2 is not 20. It is 24. Maybe the FIA/FOTA meant 8 + 8 + 4, but the wording of the press release precludes that interpretation because it said each driver will get eight race and four test engines. This is an important issue because it means teams can have an extra four engines for each test driver they accommodate. So my point that the FIA and FOTA need basic maths lessons still applies, but not the way I originally thought.
- The three-race rule voted for 2009 remains in force. This indicates a three-race engine.
So what do we have - a mostly two-race engine, a three-race engine or a four-race engine? I'm horribly confused here...
To be honest, I don’t know. If you give it a go, we’re bound to have various options should it be too big. {Christine - 4 comments ago}
OK. I know I can't send anything above 10MB at a time because it says so in big letters when I attach anything to an email, so at least each file (if it comes to splitting) will not be absolutely massive.
It's a three race engine, so each driver should only need six engines per season. They have a maximum of eight each, which means only two blow ups allowed. The team have four engines for testing.
You could always put on drop.io/sidepodcast. That's unlimited. We can then grab it and delete it from drop.io, if that's any easier.
It's good isn't it? :D
I might quote that
The whole run of Red Bulletin's are now uploaded <a href="http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/redbulletinf1" title="redbulletinf1">Here</a>
I think I will have that for Philosophical Friday. Saves me thinking up something good
That's amazing, thank you :)
Lets try that link again....
Here
Each driver gets 8 engines not 4
And if they have 3 blow ups? (which, let's be honest isn't beyond the realms of possibility)...
It’s a three race engine, so each driver should only need six engines per season. They have a maximum of eight each, which means only two blow ups allowed. The team have four engines for testing. {Christine - 8 comments ago}
So where does the four-race bit come in?
Oh that reminds me, you might find this useful:
http://www.answerbag.com/c_view/535
Some idiotic ones in there, but also some you might find useful.
I thought Alain van der Merwe drove the Honda 400 km/h car
The whole run of Red Bulletin’s are now uploaded {Flibster - 6 comments ago}
I've just managed to download them, and the archive appears to work just fine.
If a man is alone in the middle of a forest and there are no women around to hear him...Is he still wrong?
Who knows. One part says the engines have to do three races and another part says 4.
My quote, Steven, especially applies to the back of the grid even more than the front, otherwise, how else would you explain Minardi getting the occassional point back in the days when points went down to 6th place....No Minardi would ever outrace a combination of three cars from two Ferraris, two McLarens, two Williams, and two Benettons, yet everyone excepted Minardi to pick up the occasional point per season, which they did for so long?
you are awesome :)
I read a comment on a similar vain on another site recently.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
Just remembered to point out that Private Eye has a piece on Honda - that their TV advertising campaign has had no effect at all on the market share.
no, but i enjoyed 'em immensely (the cogs that is, less so with "change something").
What is so great about a rotten team scoring points? Sport should be about the pursuit of excellence. Whatever rules you have in whatever sport every now and then a hopeless team will beat a great one.
It was the change something campaign I think.
I was terribly disappointed to discover that the "cog" advert is, in fact, faked. You can see the join halfway through.
Build a man a fire, and keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.
On the subject of darts and F1 at teh same time, does anyone else believe that max writes down a ton of ideas, 1 idea to a post it note, then sticks his post it notes to at wall and launches darts at the post it notes as his way of figure out what ideas of his should get aired out in public or proposed? :D
Apart from the whole, setting people on fire thing, thats quite funny.
I still have the Cog dvd. :D
Interlude time!
See how well you do on a 1976 paper intended for 11-year-olds. I (somehow) got 15/15. Woop! :-D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7773974.stm
no, but i enjoyed ‘em immensely (the cogs that is, less so with “change something”). {me - 7 comments ago}
I've still got that ad on my computer somewhere...
I think Bernie does that then tells Max to say it.
Um, yeah. Sorry about that.
Me too :)
One thing to bear in mind for Sunday's show is that Top Gear is not on until 9pm this week. The Sports Personality thing is on from 7 till 9.
What time is Race of Championships on from and till?
Don't tell anyone I only got 8
See how well you do on a 1976 paper intended for 11-year-olds. {Dank - 2 comments ago}
12/15, having skipped two questions. I still don't get why it marked the other one wrong, even after reading the explanation.
I got 13 out of 15 but i would argu one of the two I got wrong was right. The other was a stupid mistake.
i hate that jeremy clarkson.
we can't do it afterwards, so we'll probably do it slightly before, i guess while spoty is on.
lets be honest now, the only bit of spoty was want to watch is the little lewis montage and the result.
we can pause for that :)
apparently also, the sidepodparty has been bounced until sunday 21st at 9pm, hope that's ok?
don't think top gear is on that week. christine's updating the calendar as i type:
http://www.sidepodcast.com/about/upcoming-schedule/
I think one thing we should point out is that it's now a live podparty. Not sure if that's what people had in mind. We'll be recording the awards show and streaming and generally having a bit of a laugh.
no idea when i'm gonna get back from RoC i think it ends at 7:30 or something like that. :)but i don't mind missing the live show. i will look forward to catching up with all the comments etc when i get back.
yay! sounds fun :D will it be a similar award show to last year?
You should hear him trying to work this out!! It's hilarious. Presumably the actual test had to be done in silence :)
Can't reveal too much, but yes, with added bits of podparty :)
5.
Hallo, broz. and sisters!
Well, it looks like Algarve Motor Park is becoming popular among F1 teams, now Renault's gonna launch its 2009 monster in Portugal too. It goes without saying that I was denied access to the presentation because (as some people put it) I'm "hardly F1 accredited media". Come on, I am Formula 1. They'll be busy testing too so I'll get in one way or the other.
Anyway, hoping to check out the track for myself next week, the guys from their PR department were very nice, not like Estoril folks when you call them and they tell ya to... you know. Force Something F1 (probably) Ferrari (formerly known as Honda) will not be present but proper Ferrari and McLaren sounds good. Let's see what they have to offer. And paddock tickets are cheap. Dandy.
Nachos?? :P
That is the closest I have heard to a plan for it yet. Should be good
Only if he is Chinese and can not spell his surname correctly....
do we do anything other than live?
You don't do the setting up of the equipment live
this week we shall then.
woot :)
I see, if sport is about the pursuit of excellence then that must make you a fan of Bernie's medal idea and I think Massa had more excellent results (wins) than Hamilton this season so you therefore think that Massa should be champion....
Massa won more races as a result of stewards rulings not through excellence on his part. I am not in favour of medals as I am sure you know.
For Pete's sake...
I don't think he realises that no bodys listening...
:D
I've been looking for news on Honda and any possible buyers... well for some rumours anyway and I've come across this. I've used google translator to translate it from German so it's not perfect English, but still, maybe worth a read.
Just out of interest, if Hammy had stayed in 1st in spa and massa 2nd, on bernies medals, who would be the winner?
F1.com have put a poll at the bottom of their interview with Bernie, btw.
It's funny how they're not showing the results to aviod embarrassing him. :)
poo, i just clicked yes rather than no :(
So two people have now chosen 'yes'...
I Know if Massa had been given a drive through in Valencia as well as Hamilton winning Spa then Brazil would not have mattered.
" The only thing I was uncomfortable about was that under the current system Lewis needed to finish only fifth in the last race to win the title and I don’t think the fans go to races or switch on their TV to watch a great driver aim for fifth place. The want to see the best drivers in the world battling hard for a race win."
See this is whether i think he's just totally wrong, you can't say that "fans go to races or switch on their TV to watch a great driver aim for fifth place." on the day, Lewis was damn lucky to finish where he did, the car just wasnt fast enough. It wasnt a case of him and mclaren going "oh well, lets hold off getting the win, lets just stay where we need to be". its insane, the world championship was won on the last corner of the last lap on the last circuit of the year.
last year 1 point separated 3 drivers, this year 1 point separted 2..is this man never happpy!!!!!
I got 13 out of 15 because I guessed the last 2 and didn't think them through. I passed the 11+ when I was 11, so I don't really see the need to do it again ;)
i was more of a shapes person myself, and to be honest, i never did it because im far happier being the top in my class in a public school, as aposed to someone making up the numbers in a private school.
There has been some rumours of PSA being interested in buying the team. According to Autosport David Richards has been approached by two different groups interested in taking over the team. One is Arab and the other is Magma headed by a former Ford exec Martin Leach which was mentioned in connection with F1 before. Maybe Super Aguri or maybe the 12th slot that Prodrive won.
Much better to have medals and have the championship finished by August. :D
My "no" button does not work. I closed the page.... :( .
when a new fan comes to F1 and asks "why are the drivers given medals, but the constructors given points?" i'll tell them thats because bernie always gets his way..
ITS RIGGED!!!!
Anyone who thinks the only reason Felipe didn't win the Chinese race was because he couldn't be arsed, shouldn't be running the sport.
mine did :)
Very suspicious... ;)
You just love kicking Massa when hes down don't you? I can only wonder if you kicked Massa where the sun doesn't shine in Brazil before or after telling him that Hamilton came in fifth place and Hamilton champion, not you, you Brazilian chump....
Oh dear... I just opened Safari to vote 'no' again... :P
:D
Oh no, i feel an impromtu game of "I hate the medals system so much i....."
It looks like you've gone first, "I hate the medal system so much i just opened safari to vote 'no' again"
:P
I hate the medal system so much i'm booting windows because internet explorer is bound to work.
In order to get in the podparty spirit, I'm being forced to learn these dance moves.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=POv-3yIPSWc
you going to be doing that live :p
and lets be honest, it could be worse
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qeswZaReE0I&feature=related
If you ask nicely :)
oh so much:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QMjO8vzINW4
i'd pay good money to see that.
I'm hoping you'd be there
Oh btw, shouldn't there be a new daily up?
O.o
lol
having too much fun.
do you think we can do a virtual conga?
da da da da da da, da da da da da da.
The panda and I can do it.
hehe we can always try :D
Poor Bibendum. :(
Watching from the paper waste bin as you and the panda go past in a conga line...
hahah! a bibendum is for life, not just til you get a panda.
So how do we do it, stand behind computers/laptops and look like complete nutters.
Not that we already do of course ...
good question.
Easy! :P
I voted no first time without a problem and I have passed the link on. Seems odd to ask for an opinion on a subject like this and not publicise that they are asking for it. Maybe they want to be able to say there is no strong feeling on the subject.
I am not kicking anyone just stating facts. No drive through in the history of the sport ha ever been punished by anything other than a drive through. No driver who gave back a position and then immediately re-gained it has been punished in the history of the sport. Massa benefitted from both these decisions. Had the rules been applied fairly he would not have been in contention in China never mind Brazil either in a points or medals system. Oh and don't forget he gained a place for driving into Bourdais.
You should be able to negotiate a good present if he is forcing you to do that. A baby panda or a baby white lion should do it.
How did it get to be that time?
not.having.one!
That must be a philosophical Friday right there!
:D
And the top F1 story on the BBC is all about Hamilton getting the Drivers Championship trophy
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7780985.stm
I'd agree with all of that
But Hamilton won, he won man. So just dump your agrument there. You are now bitching about the margin of victory now. The guy lost by a point and the last thing he needs is to be told "Oh, quit whinning, it was only becasue of a couple of stewards' decicisons you made it this far..." That sure seems like kicking a man when his down to me....
It was only because of Hungary and Singapore that Felipe lost...
He may have gained 3 points through penalties, but he lost twenty down to something out of his control.
Someone said that under the medals system Massa would have won and I replied that, that was only because of dubious stewarding which most people agree with. There can't be anything controversial in that. Since my original comment anything else I have said is to defend my position from your comments.
Steven Roy said:
But Hamilton won, he won man. So just dump your agrument there. You are now bitching about the margin of victory now. The guy lost by a point and the last thing he needs is to be told “Oh, quit whinning, it was only becasue of a couple of stewards’ decicisons you made it this far…” That sure seems like kicking a man when his down to me….
Someone said that under the medals system Massa would have won and I replied that, that was only because of dubious stewarding which most people agree with. There can’t be anything controversial in that. Since my original comment anything else I have said is to defend my position from your comments.
Oh, yeah, the time between the two agrements was spent stting uop the X-mas tree. Forgive, me. But again, we have been down that road with the chicane-gate. All I ask is was there a gap when between Massa and Hamilton when Massa first braked for the chicane? There sure as hell was not when Hamilton surrendered his position. Really nice when the gap equals the 0.5 of a second that has the most dirty air associated with it.
Well first it was Kimi not Massa. Second Kimi's car was useless so making up half a second would not have been an issue.