If you're looking for gold medals today, then you've come to the right place. Up for grabs on this fine Tuesday we have the Men's Canoe Single and the Women's Synchronised 10m diving. There's also some horsey type things with individual and team jumping finals in the eventing. The men's individual foil will be decided, whilst it is also the women's team final in artistic gymnastics. There's a final in the men's skeet shooting, which sounds odd, and there's some men's and women's judo and weightlifting to behold as well. What more could you want?

163 responses

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 07:21

    Day 4 already!

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 09:28

    BBC have this - compare yourself to Olympians: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19050139

    Apparently I'm like Tom Daley - I'm sceptical.

  • john31/07/2012 at 09:35

    BBC have this - compare yourself to Olympians: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19050139

    im not sure how they work that out, it said i was like david anderson, australian basketballer, who is 212 cm...... um well im about a 35 cm shorter version maybe

  • Ryan31/07/2012 at 11:16

    BBC have this - compare yourself to Olympians: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19050139

    Michelle Cesan... in the hockey... I can't help but feel we're not really that similar.

  • Ryan31/07/2012 at 11:53

    GB silver in the team equestrian!

  • lou31/07/2012 at 12:23

    i'm sad it keeps raining at wimbles, they are denying me of tennis!!

    although.. if Murray doesn't get to play today cause play is delayed i may get to see him tomorrow...hmmm

  • john31/07/2012 at 12:37

    watching the canoe slalom semi finals now. gee thats a real tough sport, it would take me half an hour to get through the course, these blokes are doing it in a minute.

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 13:14

    BBC have this - compare yourself to Olympians: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19050139

    Looks like I have violent tendencies. I am most like an Italian female fencer, a male Turkish boxer and a male Thai shooter. Figure that lot out

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 13:18

    Interesting that the heaviest competitor is more than 7 times the weight of the lightest but only 49cm taller.

  • Ryan31/07/2012 at 13:38

    I think GB male handball team are in for another hiding, 7-2 down after 7 minutes...

  • Ryan31/07/2012 at 14:03

    I think GB male handball team are in for another hiding, 7-2 down after 7 minutes...

    24-10 HT... scored some nice goals, at least...

  • CAMikaze31/07/2012 at 14:09

    Looking in at the 3 Day Show Jumping event right now. Gotta love the themed jump designs. I wonder if anyone nicknamed the 3 fence combo near the end of the run Oxerhenge yet. :D

  • CAMikaze31/07/2012 at 14:10

    How is the crowd at the Copper Box for the Handball match right now?

  • Ryan31/07/2012 at 14:11

    How is the crowd at the Copper Box for the Handball match right now?

    Looks pretty full.

  • CAMikaze31/07/2012 at 14:12

    watching the canoe slalom semi finals now. gee thats a real tough sport, it would take me half an hour to get through the course, these blokes are doing it in a minute.

    I saw a newspiece on the local news last night about some members of the press getting a ride down the course on a raft. It was a rough ride for them capped off by the raft capsizong near the end. Dunno if they offer rides to the public on non-competition days...

  • CAMikaze31/07/2012 at 14:14

    i'm sad it keeps raining at wimbles, they are denying me of tennis!!

    Someone better do a Anti-Rain dance! Is Centre Court getting used right now? Hopefully it is...

  • CAMikaze31/07/2012 at 14:20

    Meanwhile at the Barracks, former Dakar Rally winner Nasser Al-Attiya (QAT) won the Bronze medal in Men's Skeet Shooting after defeating Russia's Valeriy Shomin in the Shoot-off. The USA's Vincent Hancock became the first person to win 2 GOld Medals in this event with his win while Anders GOlding (DEN) takes the Silver.

    http://www.london2012.com/shooting/event/men-skeet/phase=shm403100/index.html

  • CAMikaze31/07/2012 at 14:25

    2nd Hald of the GBR-SWE Men's Handball match is on now.

  • CAMikaze31/07/2012 at 14:25

    Half*

  • john31/07/2012 at 14:32

    womens 10 m synchronized diving final on now, no surprises, china dominating

    france win the canoe slalom gold medal, germany silver

  • CAMikaze31/07/2012 at 14:43

    Before I forget, the Mid-west US could use some of your rainy weather right now. :(

  • CAMikaze31/07/2012 at 14:57

    Yoink! X|

    Full Time Score

    GBR 19-41 SWE

  • Lynch31/07/2012 at 15:04

    GB Badminton team have ALL been KO'd .... 1 at least should have made it through..

  • CAMikaze31/07/2012 at 15:07

    GB Badminton team have ALL been KO'd .... 1 at least should have made it through..

    :(

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 15:23

    GBR 19-41 SWE

    Looks like GB handed it to them

    It just occurred to me that we are not hearing much about people from outside GB about their teams. We need to be kept up to date with how your team is getting on as well. I wonder how many countries we can find commentors from.

  • john31/07/2012 at 15:40

    australia isnt doing much better than GB 1 gold 2 silvers and a bronze, normally we do well in the swimming but so far its been a struggle, 2 events we were big favourites for, mens 100 m freestyle relay and the womens 100 m backstroke with emily seebohm but both missed out on gold, as tonight magnussen is favourite for the 100 m freestyle but i think the french swimmer will win that too. its been a slow start but cycling we do ok in and will go close in the mens hockey but i think we will struggle to win as much as we have the last few olympics.

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 15:45

    Currently being 'made' to watch the women's gymnastics team final - featuring Team GB

  • Ryan31/07/2012 at 15:45

    It just occurred to me that we are not hearing much about people from outside GB about their teams. We need to be kept up to date with how your team is getting on as well. I wonder how many countries we can find commentors from.

    I can become an honorary Italian when I go there next week?

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 16:21

    Evening sports fans!

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 16:21

    Beth Tweddle about to do Floor in the Team comp

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 16:27

    Someone else just got carried off in a stretcher on the hockey. What is this crazy dangerous sport?

  • Ryan31/07/2012 at 16:28

    Someone else just got carried off in a stretcher on the hockey. What is this crazy dangerous sport?

    Been an OK game up to that point. GB threw away a 3-1 lead to...

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 16:30

    Someone else just got carried off in a stretcher on the hockey. What is this crazy dangerous sport?

    This field hockey needs a field hospital.

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 16:39

    Someone else just got carried off in a stretcher on the hockey. What is this crazy dangerous sport?

    They should wear helmets and body armour. Is the girl who got smashed in the face with a stick on Sunday and had to get a steel plate to re-connect her broken jaw playing? Everyone seemed to think she would be back fairly quickly but that would be crazy. She was the team captain

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 16:41

    They should wear helmets and body armour. Is the girl who got smashed in the face with a stick on Sunday and had to get a steel plate to re-connect her broken jaw playing? Everyone seemed to think she would be back fairly quickly but that would be crazy. She was the team captain

    Isn't there a technical-working-group who are immediately depeloping solutions?

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 17:15

    This field hockey needs a field hospital.

    heh!

  • Ryan31/07/2012 at 17:16

    I do quite like the use of 'Wild Dances' in the gymnastics #eurovision

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 17:31

    what a view!

    http://twitpic.com/adx8cq

  • Amy31/07/2012 at 17:40

    Popping in to say yay for nz getting its first medal, bronze in the horsey thing!

  • Amy31/07/2012 at 17:43

    Elsewhere Tsonga and Raonic are trying to be the new Isner and Mahut

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 17:51

    Just got in and switched on the TV. Hockey is on and Korean women are wearing serious looking facemasks. Makes you wonder why the others don't

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 17:52

    Popping in to say yay for nz getting its first medal, bronze in the horsey thing!

    That would be the team 3 day event. GB team didn't win gold according to some team official because the weather has been bad this year.

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 17:54

    Another GB hockey player on a stretcher. Twisted her ankle this time.

    Just found out this is recorded. I am live commenting the past. Stupid BBC

  • Amy31/07/2012 at 18:07

    Great quote from Gervais in the build up video.

    "if you can run, it could save your life, if you can swim, it could save your life, if you can fight, it could save your life. Rhythmic gymnastics...."

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 18:34

    Ooh, swimming time again.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 18:45

    GB lady in 200m free final but last, I think.

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 18:52

    Phelps time!

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 18:52

    What are the odds on a Phelpsy win?

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 18:54

    he came 2nd!!

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 18:54

    Phelps can't catch a break!

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 18:55

    unbelievable, it was al down to the glidey bit

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 18:55

    He must be pinching himself, hoping he's in a nightmare!

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 18:56

    unbelievable, it was al down to the glidey bit

    Seen it now, what an idiot - one kick at least would've done it, but short stroke would've given him the G.

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 19:00

    And by idiot I mean that he will feel like one when he watches it back.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:26

    Michael Jamieson wins 200m breaststroke semi-final.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:27

    Improved his personal best by over a second, and took a British record too.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:27

    Never heard of him!

  • Lynch31/07/2012 at 19:28

    Badminton Update : Ladies Doubles, both Chinese and korean pairs were trying to loose as to not meet the other chinese pair in the next round... the Koreans won... Chinese pair didn't play at all they have a history of this sort of match fixing?!

  • Lynch31/07/2012 at 19:29

    .. blame the group stage format..

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:32

    Red hat swimmer comes second in the other semi final. Seems like we're good at breaststroke?

  • Mark31/07/2012 at 19:33

    Red hat swimmer comes second in the other semi final. Seems like we're good at breaststroke?

    We're quickest at the slowest stroke. There's something poetic about that.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:34

    We're quickest at the slowest stroke. There's something poetic about that.

    :)

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 19:38

    aww bless his mum and dad.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:39

    Tears!

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:39

    aww bless his mum and dad.

    Bless them all!

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 19:43

    Heheheh his dad is amazing

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 19:43

    LOOK AT HIM!

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:44

    Heheheh his dad is amazing

    I swear he just accidentally said "underbelievable" :)

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:46

    Ooh, Hannah's back. We like Miley.

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 19:46

    She is looking soo smiley

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:51

    I'm surprised (s)Miley doesn't do more breaststroke stuff because she made up tons of time on that length.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:53

    She's always so positive. I love her.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 19:53

    And now a relay. Fabbo!

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:00

    Swimming is so relaxing to watch yet so exciting at the same time

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:02

    I'm surprised (s)Miley doesn't do more breaststroke stuff because she made up tons of time on that length.

    Where did she finish?

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:03

    what a performance by the us

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:03

    Phelps has destroyed them

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:03

    Where did she finish?

    Somewhere around fifth I think.

  • Pat W31/07/2012 at 20:03

    Meanwhile at the Barracks, former Dakar Rally winner Nasser Al-Attiya (QAT) won the Bronze medal in Men's Skeet Shooting after defeating Russia's Valeriy Shomin in the Shoot-off. The USA's Vincent Hancock became the first person to win 2 GOld Medals in this event with his win while Anders GOlding (DEN) takes the Silver.

    Go Nasser, good to see him doing well.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:03

    what a performance by the us

    It always boggles my mind a bit when they get to a turn and start swimming back, passing the other people who are still coming in the other direction.

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:04

    Somewhere around fifth I think.

    Seems to be happening a lot. Not last but not in a medal position

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:04

    It always boggles my mind a bit when they get to a turn and start swimming back, passing the other people who are still coming in the other direction.

    yes! it's so strange :)

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:04

    michael phelps is now officially the most olympicest man ever

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:04

    GB sixth in the relay.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:08

    Ieuan has a lot of vowels in his name.

  • Pat W31/07/2012 at 20:08

    Hope the swimming is good, I've missed two nights of it now..

  • Pat W31/07/2012 at 20:08

    19 medals!

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 20:10

    19 medals!

    Best. Olympian. Ever.

    (So long as number of medals is the metric you're using)

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:12

    has ian thorpe left the couch yet? do they just keep giving him a new jacket?

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:15

    There must be something about the lights in that studio because I keep thinking Thorpe and Lineker are crying.

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:16

    has ian thorpe left the couch yet? do they just keep giving him a new jacket?

    He said last night he is going back to swimming competitively. Wonder if that us connected in any way to Phelps retiring

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:16

    Looked at the tv, ian thorpe was talking. Looked away. Looked back. stella mcartney.

    Interesting change of clothing

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:16

    If Gary doesn't ask Stella why she forgot the red, I will be annoyed.

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:17

    I hope she doesn't close tonight's show with hey jude

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 20:18

    tom daly's... what??

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:18

    If Gary doesn't ask Stella why she forgot the red, I will be annoyed.

    The male gymnasts were almost all red as are one or two other sports

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:18

    If Gary doesn't ask Stella why she forgot the red, I will be annoyed.

    Lotus took it

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:19

    tom daly's... what??

    Trunks

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 20:19

    Trunks

    oooooh right.

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:19

    uugghghh

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:19

    oooooh right.

    That isn't quite what she said :)

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:21

    She was poking Victoria Pendleton's stomach. Is that really a necessary part of making a cycling suit?

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:22

    impressive replay!

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 20:22

    love matrix-vault-cam.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:22

    That's the best vault I've ever seen.

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:23

    Vaulting terrifies me, honestly, it always looks like theyre gonna break their legs to me

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:23

    love matrix-vault-cam.

    They showed a replay of the assymetric bars a couple of days ago and it looked like the girl was flying upside down with her body staying perfectly vertical. Very odd. Then a bar came into view

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:24

    Vaulting terrifies me, honestly, it always looks like theyre gonna break their legs to me

    I used to think beam was the worst, but they're running headlong at a big block. Scary.

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:25

    I used to think beam was the worst, but they're running headlong at a big block. Scary.

    I just liked jumping face first into massive crash mats at school. why is that not an olympic sport?

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:26

    I just liked jumping face first into massive crash mats at school. why is that not an olympic sport?

    I used to like putting all the mats away. Mostly because it meant PE was over. :)

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:27

    I used to like putting all the mats away. Mostly because it meant PE was over. :)

    heheh!

  • Pat W31/07/2012 at 20:28

    Oh wow, GB are beating Brazil in women's football. 1-0, 2 minutes to go.

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:28

    I used to like putting all the mats away. Mostly because it meant PE was over. :)

    You would enjoy it more now because you could FBFB everything that happened then make a podcast and sell it to everyone's parents

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:29

    Oh wow, GB are beating Brazil in women's football. 1-0, 2 minutes to go.

    oh fantastic!! i hope brazil aren;t as physical as they were in cardiff though :)

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 20:29

    pink floyd?

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 20:30

    pink floyd?

    worked well.

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:30

    pink floyd?

    All the music for the gymnastics sounds weird. Must be something to do with the rules. Beth Tweddle had the worst version of Live and Let Die ever

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:31

    pink floyd?

    ironically i havent heard the official song at all apart from being in cardiff. which is wierd!

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 20:32

    All the music for the gymnastics sounds weird. Must be something to do with the rules. Beth Tweddle had the worst version of Live and Let Die ever

    are they playing it through a gramophone?

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:33

    GB women just beat Brazil

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:33

    are they playing it through a gramophone?

    sounds like it's being played through a potato

  • Pat W31/07/2012 at 20:33

    oh fantastic!! i hope brazil aren;t as physical as they were in cardiff though :)

    They won!!

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:33

    GB women just beat Brazil

    They've won every match! Very impressive

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:33

    are they playing it through a gramophone?

    I think one with a graphic equalizer where they fade out certain random frequencies

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:35

    sounds like it's being played through a potato

    It sounds like some teenager is playing music under the duvet so that their parents won't know they are doing it

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:37

    Team GB's women football team should replace some of the men, they seemed better and less fally-over-y

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 20:39

    Team GB's women football team should replace some of the men, they seemed better and less fally-over-y

    And when they do 'fall over', they get back up, rather than writhing.

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:40

    And when they do 'fall over', they get back up, rather than writhing.

    Indeed, no messing or anything.

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:42

    "Bradley Wigglens"

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:42

    bradley wiggins and guy martin need to race each other on their respective bikes to out-muttonchop each other

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:43

    Tomorrow's schedule: http://www.london2012.com/schedule-and-results/day=1-august/all-day.html

    Quite similar to today's I think.

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:45

    Tomorrow's schedule: www.london2012.co…gust/all-day.html

    Wow it's august tomorrow. I didnt even realise!

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:45

    Tomorrow's schedule: www.london2012.co…gust/all-day.html

    I love the little blocks. I just imagine people turning up to watch diving then leaving to go home 45 minutes later. Surely diving can't be that quick

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 20:49

    Wow it's august tomorrow. I didnt even realise!

    you can't not have noticed, it's autosport quota day ;) #sorrywayofftopic

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:51

    I love the little blocks. I just imagine people turning up to watch diving then leaving to go home 45 minutes later. Surely diving can't be that quick

    Well there's eight entries and they dive, what is it, six times? That can't take that long.

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 20:53

    Well there's eight entries and they dive, what is it, six times? That can't take that long.

    There are lots off different diving competitions though. They could have put three of them on together and given the people value for money

  • Lukeh31/07/2012 at 20:54

    Well there's eight entries and they dive, what is it, six times? That can't take that long.

    This is why we need more running bomb entries into diving

  • Christine31/07/2012 at 20:54

    There are lots off different diving competitions though. They could have put three of them on together and given the people value for money

    Oh yes, you could even, shock horror, have mens and womens on the same day.

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 21:04

    The hockey dressing rooms are not in the stadium. Stupid

  • Pat W31/07/2012 at 21:27

    BBC have this - compare yourself to Olympians: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19050139

    Most like Alan Parsonage the water polo player.

  • Will^31/07/2012 at 21:28

    I think it's time to turn in - night all.

  • Ryan31/07/2012 at 21:34

    In light of the heroic win, I've got tickets for the women at St James now! Shame its for USA-NZ...

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 21:34

    Night Will

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 21:38

    The hockey dressing rooms are not in the stadium. Stupid

    where are they then?

  • Amy31/07/2012 at 21:39

    ironically i havent heard the official song at all apart from being in cardiff. which is wierd!

    I have now heard it half a million times and find myself wishing they'd play something else before things start #sorrylukeh

    In other news I still can't believe I saw Phelps win #19 and it was gold. The only swimming ticket I applied for in the ballot and one of the only tickets I successfully got. What are the odds! Must have been fate.

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 21:40

    In other news I still can't believe I saw Phelps win #19 and it was gold. The only swimming ticket I applied for in the ballot and one of the only tickets I successfully got. What are the odds! Must have been fate.

    that is amazini!

  • Amy31/07/2012 at 21:40

    In light of the heroic win, I've got tickets for the women at St James now! Shame its for USA-NZ...

    you know who to cheer for...

  • Amy31/07/2012 at 21:42

    Oh yes, you could even, shock horror, have mens and womens on the same day.

    I think they keep the diving sessions really short to fit in with the swimming

  • Pat W31/07/2012 at 21:44

    In light of the heroic win, I've got tickets for the women at St James now! Shame its for USA-NZ...

    Could be one sided but people said that about Brazil v GB..

  • Ryan31/07/2012 at 21:44

    you know who to cheer for...

    I'll make sure I buy the Kiwi Pie.

  • Pat W31/07/2012 at 21:44

    In other news I still can't believe I saw Phelps win #19 and it was gold. The only swimming ticket I applied for in the ballot and one of the only tickets I successfully got. What are the odds! Must have been fate.

    Very cool :)

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 21:52

    where are they then?

    Not quite sure. The hockey stadium is not a permanent structure so they have to leave the stadium and jog somewhere else to the changing rooms.

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 21:53

    Not quite sure. The hockey stadium is not a permanent structure so they have to leave the stadium and jog somewhere else to the changing rooms.

    it's like a school sportsday

  • Pat W31/07/2012 at 21:53

    Jake on BBC3 quit the USA v Tunisia basketball to update us on what celebrities are saying on Twitter.

  • Pat W31/07/2012 at 21:56

    Jake on BBC3 quit the USA v Tunisia basketball to update us on what celebrities are saying on Twitter.

    Ah now a Wiggins interview, good one too.

  • Amy31/07/2012 at 22:23

    Very cool :)

    I don't even think there was a reason I chose that session over the other ones :D

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 22:26

    I don't even think there was a reason I chose that session over the other ones :D

    I don't even think there was a reason I chose that session over the other ones :D

    dumb luck > planning - PROVED

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 22:27

    dumb luck > planning - PROVED

    hehehehe. although getting maybe required a tiny bit of planning.

  • Steven Roy31/07/2012 at 22:28

    hehehehe. although getting maybe required a tiny bit of planning.

    Whose side are you on?

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 22:30

    Whose side are you on?

    the one with the most gold medals?

  • Mr C31/07/2012 at 22:42

    the one with the most gold medals?

    actually, i'm not picky. the one with the most medals :)

  • Amy31/07/2012 at 22:50

    BBC have this - compare yourself to Olympians: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19050139

    yay I'm most like a chinese male gymnast

  • Will^01/08/2012 at 08:19

    yay I'm most like a chinese male gymnast

    I notice you forget to mention which one ;)