Ah-ha! I have remembered to write the post. This is a good thing, but if anyone has any tips for remembering things, I would love to hear them. My memory isn't what it used to be, or something like that. However, enough about me, there's plenty going on in F1 at the moment, as well as in the comments.

  • It seems to be the winter of discontent for our drivers. We previously heard Barrichello having a moan about certain employers in his past. Now we've got Alonso complaining about the direction the cars are taking (I agree, by the way), Kovalainen getting a dig in over apparent Hamilton favouritism, and Pantano just griping about F1 teams in general. What do you think is up with our drivers? Are they just missing the racing?
  • McLaren made video of Hamilton's ideal track. We're still analysing the lap itself, but also having a look at the video and wondering why it's not as good as Red Bull's Singapore spectacle.
  • I Spy is still on H, and in the Numbers Game, we've covered 61 and are set to look at 62.

We're halfway through the week and it's all downhill to the weekend from here, thank goodness. Don't be constrained by the topics I've listed above, feel free to discuss anything that comes to mind. I'll see you in the comments.

173 responses

  • me04/12/2008 at 00:06

    62 mph is approximately 100 km/h, a figure often used to measure the acceleration of an f1 car.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 00:14

    62 - Points scored by Rubens in 2000.

  • me04/12/2008 at 00:16

    62 - Points scored by Rubens in 2000.

    Mercedes SL 63 - the current f1 safety car.

  • Jordan Allen ()04/12/2008 at 02:15

    64 mph, rounded winner's average speed the the 1972 Monaco Grand Prix.

    65 ==> Most Pole Positions in a Career, by Aryton Senna.

  • me04/12/2008 at 02:25

    64 mph, rounded winner’s average speed the the 1972 Monaco Grand Prix.

    how could you possibly know that? :)

  • me04/12/2008 at 02:33

    i have a confession to make. the new amazon mp3 store is a bit bloomin' brilliant.

    compared to itunes, the interface is hopeless and having a helper-app to download your purchases feels very 1999. but the ability to buy an mp3 and just play it anywhere is rather liberating.

    apple have itunes plus, but that's just an added layer of confusion. hopefully, if record companies can do drm free for one, they'll do it for all download stores, and maybe i'll start buying music again.

  • Journeyer04/12/2008 at 03:13

    65 ==> Most Pole Positions in a Career, by Aryton Senna.

    Doesn't Michael have the most now? That's for a later number though. :)

  • Dave in NZL04/12/2008 at 03:15

    i have a confession to make. the new amazon mp3 store is a bit bloomin’ brilliant.

    There is a sneaky new FireFox app that adds a link to each page on Amazon pointing the an illegal version you can download using torrents. Anything that can be converted to digital form (e.g. books, CDs, games, these mp3 things you talk of, etc.) is covered - if there is a pirated copy available via torrent, this app will give you the .tor file.

    http://torrentfreak.com/firefox-pirates-take-over-amazon-081203/

    arr...

  • me04/12/2008 at 03:21

    There is a sneaky new FireFox app that adds a link to each page on Amazon pointing the an illegal version you can download using torrents.

    that's not what i'm after really though.

    to me a song is worth 59p of my money and i want to contribute money back to the artists who created the work.

    what i don't want, is retarded and out of touch record companies telling me where and when i can play music. torrenting music is simply backing up their arguments for tougher drm and yet more restrictions.

  • Dave in NZL04/12/2008 at 03:25

    No - sorry, I'm not suporting the piratical nature of the thing - I'm simply (although now re-reading it, not even mentioning) pointing out that the material IS available without DRM/copy protection. The world has shown that the material will be transformed into a usable form; I can't understand why industry execs choose to stiffle people's use by limiting what they can do with their paid for data.

    Surely they see that the attraction to the 'pirate' is that the data is as they want it, where they want it?

  • me04/12/2008 at 03:42

    I can’t understand why industry execs choose to stiffle people’s use by limiting what they can do with their paid for data.

    they've been doing since 80's with insane ideas like SCMS. the problem, i guess is that record companies don't actually own anything tangible. they're not the talent, they're just middle-men.

    thus they therefore spend forever protecting and defending the gravy train for all they're worth, almost always to the point of stupidity. thankfully all those years of effort have amounted to nothing, and they've been well and truly beaten into submission here.

    now. how long until hollywood take the same hint? another ten years maybe?

  • Jordan Allen ()04/12/2008 at 05:42

    me said:

    64 mph, rounded winner’s average speed the the 1972 Monaco Grand Prix.

    how could you possibly know that?

    Went to the local library and the female bookworm had a stack of well-thumbed F1 books in front of her. Had an Englsih accent with some weird Spanish/French/Italian name.... Paid no attention to me so I picked up the book and found that fact.

    It was fairly recent as Barrichello was the Red Baron's rear gunner, but it stated that Senna was on top in the Poles scorecard....

    Okay. 65 ==> Number of Laps the racers had to actually race in the 2007 Spanish Grand Prix at Catalunya.

  • lou04/12/2008 at 08:44

    Hey guys! I never thought i would say this, but thank heavans for school! They have internet :D I had to spend yesterday evening without a telephone line or internet. In fact i've no idea when i will have internet back again :( hopefully sometime this evening. So i'll be around when i can (probably in the occational free i have at school). damn internet addiction ;) hopefully speak to you guys soon!

  • Christine04/12/2008 at 09:54

    Well, Sato's getting another go in the Toro Rosso.

    Another chance to convince the bosses.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 10:11

    I had a look at that Lewis Hamilton lap thingy. Sounded like a great circuit layout and I was really looking forward to the vid but oh dear what a disaster. I know I have whinged and moaned a little about F1 TV directors but what I saw of the vid - I gave up half way through the second corner - seemed to follow their lead. Most of the shots used could have been on any track anywhere in the world. For something like this all you have to do is show it from the driver's point of view.

  • me04/12/2008 at 11:20

    Another chance to convince the bosses.

    didn't he get enough of those in '03 / '04?

  • Dank04/12/2008 at 11:21

    Well, Sato’s getting another go in the Toro Rosso.

    Another chance to convince the bosses.

    With Berger gone, I think Bourdais' case for staying has all but vanished. With Red Bull making the decisions at STR and their commercial considerations a major factor, I can see Sato getting the second seat.

    Shame really.

  • me04/12/2008 at 11:23

    I gave up half way through the second corner - seemed to follow their lead. Most of the shots used could have been on any track anywhere in the world. For something like this all you have to do is show it from the driver’s point of view.

    i get the impression the people who usually make the mobile 1 advertisements were left in charge. because the animation of the fluid running through the engine, near the end of the video is spot on.

    maybe, they've never been asked to do the outside of a car before?

  • daniel04/12/2008 at 11:34

    the mclaren video of the dream track is so so.. but the video where they show their old motorhome, now up for sale, is great!

    http://server02.racecar.net/carsint/

    btw, more commercial for sales, renault is selling motor parts from their 2008 car;

    http://store.ing-renaultf1.com/en_boutique__RenaultF1TeamPrivateSale-10939_135629.html

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 11:45

    the mclaren video of the dream track is so so.. but the video where they show their old motorhome, now up for sale, is great! http://server02.racecar.net/carsint/

    I didn't know McLarne had a new motorhome lined up. The first thing that struck me is no wonder Heikki is upset if he didn't even get his name on his own door.

  • Gavin Brown (RubberGoat)04/12/2008 at 11:47

    Hi all,

    If this post of mine seems upside down and is cooler than usual it is because I have arrived safely in NZ for my holiday and I am posting this from a Mac G5 (my Mum and Dad's computer :-) )

    Basically I have been flat out seeing people, spending time with the family and celebrating my Mum's 50th birthday :-) I am having a really great time seeing the town I used to live in too - I have even managed to visit such things as a car museum!

    I've just watched the Lewis Hamilton F1 Superlap Video (Thanks Christine for posting that on FaceBook :-) )

    I thought that was an awesome idea and the video was "Five Pints of Awesome!"

    Although the camera angles were a bit poor, the idea is fantastic and is something that Hermann Tilke really should take note of when designing the next "Tilke Groaner". In the meantime, I think someone needs to make this track for rFactor or get CodeMasters to put it in the 2009 F1 game!

    It also reminded me of something else. There exists a track for a game called "Grand Prix Legends" called "Legion" - it's a similar idea to this one where someone made a circuit out of all their favourite corners from 1960's Grand Prix Circuits.

    You can find the track layout here but the Circuit went something like this:

    Eau Rouge (Spa), Lesmos (Monza), "Old" Abbey and Woodcote (Silverstone), Flugplatz to Adenauer Forest (Nurburgring), a stretch from Zandvoort, another stretch from Kyalami, the long straight from the end of the old Nurburgring and ending with La Source and the Masta Kink from Spa.

    The circuit is intense to drive in the game itself and I think Lewis' one would also be mind blowing!!!

    Catch you all later,

    Gavin

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 12:34

    I just had a look at the awards thing and sidepodcast has 88 nominations where the eskimo eco-mentalists have 74. According to the blurb at the top of the page nominations close on November 21st but it still seems to be letting people nominate or at least click on the little plus sign.

    Voting is supposed to start on December 8th with the finalists announced a few days before. It is a few days before now.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 12:37

    According to the front page of the awards site nominations have closed on but for categories - best blog in 4 different size categories.

    Despite a record number of nominations they expect voting to start on schedule on Monday.

  • Alianora La Canta04/12/2008 at 12:53

    66 - The year when the first driver to win a championship for a team run by that driver (Jack Brabham for... ...Brabham).

  • jolly04/12/2008 at 14:41

    67 No of laps of the Nürburgring that make up the Luxembourg Grand Prix

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 15:15
  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 15:29

    If they have cancelled the staff Xmas lunch they must have real problems. People get really upset about that sort of thing.

    Makes you wonder if all Button's positive comments were aimed at Honda in Japan rather than the fans. I guess they are looking for sponsors and getting rid of the earthdreams because Honda has cut the money supply off.

    STR is in a mess. Honda is in a mess. Who is next? This cannot be unexpected because when Max started recruiting manufacturers enough people said that they would abandon F1 as soon as the going got tough. They have driven everyone bar a couple of billionaires out and now they could collapse the whole house of cards.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 15:36

    http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21015.html

    Just to add to the financial mess in F1 BMW's sponsor Credit Suisse is making 11% of its workforce redundant.

  • Becken04/12/2008 at 15:45

    Steven,

    I read your comment at Ollie´s blog about “earthdreams concept being dropped in favour of putting sponsors on the car.”

    Do you have more details about that news?

    I wrote this at blogf1:

    There’s a big rumor here in Brazil surround the tests at Jerez next week. The talk is that Rubens will test alongside Bruno to evaluate the young Senna.

    There’s others talks involving Senna and Rubens situation:

    — Petrobras will be a Honda sponsor next year (I do not know the size of the backing!) and the company is developing a product that will be linked with Senna´s (the uncle) brand.

    — Ross Brawns think that keep Rubens would be worth to the team on this time of huge change in technical regulations.

    — Nick Fry prefer the idea of the guys in Honda´s Office, who thinks that Bruno would be better to the team (commercially?).

    So, this news about a new sponsor could complete the puzzle. We have an internal fight between Braw and Fry. Brawn trying to make the team more competitive and Fry trying to make the team viable in face of the world financial crises…

    Obviously, it is just some thoughts…

    What you think?

  • Jordan Allen ()04/12/2008 at 15:54

    68 ==> Most Pole Positions in a Career, by Michael Schumacher.

    Carefully checked using only Wikipedia. Not endorsed by either "me" or Christine, so must be accurate.

    Gavin Brown (RubberGoat) said:

    It also reminded me of something else. There exists a track for a game called “Grand Prix Legends” called “Legion” - it’s a similar idea to this one where someone made a circuit out of all their favourite corners from 1960’s Grand Prix Circuits.

    You can find the track layout here but the Circuit went something like this:

    Eau Rouge (Spa), Lesmos (Monza), “Old” Abbey and Woodcote (Silverstone), Flugplatz to Adenauer Forest (Nurburgring), a stretch from Zandvoort, another stretch from Kyalami, the long straight from the end of the old Nurburgring and ending with La Source and the Masta Kink from Spa.

    The circuit is intense to drive in the game itself and I think Lewis’ one would also be mind blowing!!!

    Actually no, Gavin. I think Lewis would hate the Legion track with a passion as that would take away his favourite passing methond of running people of the road. It is easy for people to move over when there is either a shoulder or some other space to do so, but that Nordschliefe section, it I recall right has a sheer mountain cliff on the right side of the road and the steel guardrail protecting the cars from a hundred foot drop on the left, with your typical two lane road snaking its way though....

    I think that the first Esses (after old Woodcote) came from Mosport Park (Canadian Grand Prix) as well as the Moss Hairpin after the second Esses. Still trying to figure out that one.

    And what is that evil left-hander between the Mastra Kink and Eau Ruoge? Mess up that corner and you should be somewhere around Flugplatz by the time all the debris spot rolling....

  • me04/12/2008 at 15:56

    If they have cancelled the staff Xmas lunch they must have real problems. People get really upset about that sort of thing.

    heavy stuff.

    is this a public relations exercise to appease those who are going to be rested at the car plant in the new year? or are they really in that much trouble?

  • me04/12/2008 at 15:57

    Carefully checked using only Wikipedia. Not endorsed by either “me” or Christine, so must be accurate.

    :D

  • Barry Wolf04/12/2008 at 16:07

    I hope Taku gets the Torro Rosso seat. While he is not as consistent as other drivers (he's quite like a pre-2008 Massa), he has more balls than half of the field on many occasions. I still remember when he was driving the Super Aguri, he passed Alonso (in a McLaren, no less!)in the Canadian Grand Prix. Bring back Taku!

    New cars:

    1. Unlike Me and Christine, I think they look beautiful. If the front wing is more susceptible to damage, then the drivers will figure out how to avoid a broken front wing

    2. KERS may not make a difference if it is too heavy (batteries are heavy, and so are flywheels that store a lot of energy)- and it certainly didn't cut costs

    3. Slicks are long overdue - I hope that Bridgestone doesn't screw up the specification

    I can't wait to see what happens next year.

    Barry

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 16:18

    Here's something: You know some people are actually able to setup and program these for use on racing simulators :D

    http://www.amalgamcollection.com/en/product/product_detail.php?SKU=M5197&list_type=&list_value=&PHPSESSID=7569112eeee7624cf42099b385ca9b43

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 16:18

    Do you have more details about that news?

    Hi Becken,

    Last week's Autosport magazine mentioned very briefly that Honda would drop the earthdreams in favour of sponsors but they did not go into any detail on who the sponsors were so it may be Petrobras.

    They did say that Honda was discussing which drivers to test on Dec 9-11 and that Ross Brawn did not want a young driver unless that driver had good development ability. They seem to have been more impressed by Senna than diGrassi so I guess it is possible that they will run Senna and Barrichello at the test. If they run Button and Senna then I guess Rubens is out.

    It must be tempting to take Senna for the name but also because he has achieved a good standard with very little experience compared to other drivers at the same level so he can only improve. If I was choosing Honda drivers for next season I would drop Button and run Barrichello and Senna. No doubt I have just upset Lou but I think in the long run that would be best for the team.

    If they take on a young driver they have to develop him and Rubens with his experience and the fact that he is near the end of his career would be better than Button who could end up seeing Senna as a rival and competing with him. The last thing Honda need is two drivers fighting each other. On the track it is fine but the off track politics is the last thing they need. If they have two Brazilian drivers that means they don't have two countries' newspapers stirring things up.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 16:21

    is this a public relations exercise to appease those who are going to be rested at the car plant in the new year? or are they really in that much trouble?

    I guess if they are seeking voluntary redundancies from the team things are pretty bad. Seems a bit stupid to forego sponsorship for two seasons then run into money trouble. Makes you wonder what Fry is doing to justify half a million a year.

  • me04/12/2008 at 16:26

    If they have two Brazilian drivers that means they don’t have two countries’ newspapers stirring things up.

    that'l halve their marketing opportunities though won't it? can they afford that right now?

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 16:29

    that’l halve their marketing opportunities though won’t it? can they afford that right now?

    If you use that as a basis for picking drivers they should choose them from the largest car buying countries so 1 from the USA and 1 from Japan/Germany/or whoever else is second. So they should sign Scott Speed and Ralf. :)

  • Jordan Allen ()04/12/2008 at 16:29

    69 ==> Ferrari's Horrible Year. Total Domination of the Ford Cosworth DFV V8 engine as their four teams Matra, Brabham, Lotus and McLaren go 4 for 4 in the Constructor's Championship and worse yet, Ferrari is tied for fifth with BRM.

  • me04/12/2008 at 16:31

    If you use that as a basis for picking drivers they should choose them from the largest car buying countries so 1 from the USA and 1 from Japan/Germany/or whoever else is second. So they should sign Scott Speed and Ralf.

    any idea, when was the last time a team ran two drivers from the same country?

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 16:36

    any idea, when was the last time a team ran two drivers from the same country?

    Damien/DC at Williams springs to mind. There must have been some since

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 16:38

    Damien/DC at Williams springs to mind. There must have been some since

    Super Aguri had Sato/Ide for the first few races in 2006.

  • Christine04/12/2008 at 16:39

    any idea, when was the last time a team ran two drivers from the same country?

    Briefly last year there was Heidfeld and Vettel.

    In 2006, Super Aguri had Sato and about a million other Japanese drivers at one point or another.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 16:39

    Super Aguri had Sato/Ide for the first few races in 2006.

    Actually, all their drivers in 2006 were Japanese.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 16:41

    Sutil/Winkelhock at the Nurburgring last year.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 16:41

    Dom: 04/12/2008 at 16:39

    Super Aguri had Sato/Ide for the first few races in 2006.

    Actually, all their drivers in 2006 were Japanese.

    And Montagny ;)

    Evnin All.

    Just to add to the financial mess in F1 BMW’s sponsor Credit Suisse is making 11% of its workforce redundant.

    This ain't good for BMW is it? Obviously not as bad as SS united who didn't pay the Aguri, but not good at all.

  • Christine04/12/2008 at 16:42

    Actually, all their drivers in 2006 were Japanese.

    Think you might be forgetting someone. A very important someone.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 16:42

    any idea, when was the last time a team ran two drivers from the same country?

    A quick scan through Wikipedia suggest Super Aguri in 2006 had a certain Frenchman and 3 Japanese drivers.

  • me04/12/2008 at 16:42

    Think you might be forgetting someone. A very important someone.

    give r.g. a point ;)

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 16:43

    give r.g. a point

    YAY! -999,999 for me.

  • me04/12/2008 at 16:43

    A quick scan through Wikipedia suggest Super Aguri in 2006 had a certain Frenchman and 3 Japanese drivers.

    so. my question wasn't worded very well :)

    when was the last time a team ran two drivers from the same country for the duration of a whole season :)

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 16:44

    Think you might be forgetting someone. A very important someone.

    Yamamoto?

  • Christine04/12/2008 at 16:45

    when was the last time a team ran two drivers from the same country for the duration of a whole season

    But didn't we already establish that there hasn't been a season without driver changes before?

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 16:45

    so. my question wasn’t worded very well when was the last time a team ran two drivers from the same country for the duration of a whole season

    Didn't Sauber have Frentzen and Heidfeld for a season?

  • Christine04/12/2008 at 16:45

    But didn’t we already establish that there hasn’t been a season without driver changes before?

    Sorry, ignore that. Confusion reigns!

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 16:47

    Didn’t Sauber have Frentzen and Heidfeld for a season?

    Heidfeld and Glock were at Jordan for a few races too...

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 16:48

    Heidfeld and Glock were at Jordan for a few races too…

    He's asking for the whole season.

    Didn’t Sauber have Frentzen and Heidfeld for a season?

    I was right, beat 2003.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 16:50

    Maybe in 2009 we'll have two frenchmen at Toro Rosso ;)

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 16:51

    He’s asking for the whole season.

    Ahh, ok. Yep, that'd be Sauber.

  • Christine04/12/2008 at 16:51

    Maybe in 2009 we’ll have two frenchmen at Toro Rosso

    Don't put your money on it, though, eh?

  • Jordan Allen ()04/12/2008 at 16:52

    December 4th, 2008 at 4:41 pmR.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind) said:

    Dom: 04/12/2008 at 16:39

    Super Aguri had Sato/Ide for the first few races in 2006.

    Actually, all their drivers in 2006 were Japanese.

    And Montagny

    Evnin All.

    Nah, Montagny just drove like a Japanese Driver. Even the Kat (Ukyo Kataymama) dissed him as equal to Inoue....

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 16:53

    Maybe in 2009 we’ll have two frenchmen at Toro Rosso

    Is Panis coming out of retirement? :P

  • Jordan Allen ()04/12/2008 at 16:56

    Dom said:

    Maybe in 2009 we’ll have two frenchmen at Toro Rosso

    Is Panis coming out of retirement?

    Or Alesi?

  • Jordan Allen ()04/12/2008 at 16:58

    Dom said:

    Maybe in 2009 we’ll have two frenchmen at Toro Rosso

    Is Panis coming out of retirement?

    Well Dom, you can ask the man himself.....

    So "Me" coming out of retirement now that you do not have to face the walls at Montreal anymore?

  • me04/12/2008 at 16:59

    So “Me” coming out of retirement now that you do not have to face the walls at Montreal anymore?

    not until they figure out a live commenting solution from the dashboard :)

  • me04/12/2008 at 17:00

    Didn’t Sauber have Frentzen and Heidfeld for a season?

    nice one, thanks you. wonder if it hurt their marketing at all?

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 17:02

    nice one, thanks you. wonder if it hurt their marketing at all?

    Frentzen got a podium in the US of A I believe. So can't all have been bad.

    not until they figure out a live commenting solution from the dashboard

    Speech recognition?

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 17:06

    So “Me” coming out of retirement now that you do not have to face the walls at Montreal anymore?

    :D

    If i'm fair though, there's every chance that Nicolas Prost could get a drive with Toro Rosso. ;)

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 17:11

    If i’m fair though, there’s every chance that Nicolas Prost could get a drive with Toro Rosso.

    If Honda are looking for marketing opportunities they should sign Senna and Prost. That would get them some coverage.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 17:19

    If Honda are looking for marketing opportunities they should sign Senna and Prost. That would get them some coverage.

    All they'd need then is a McLaren chassis...

  • Jordan Allen ()04/12/2008 at 17:26

    Dom said:

    If Honda are looking for marketing opportunities they should sign Senna and Prost. That would get them some coverage.

    All they’d need then is a McLaren chassis…

    Do not Williams already try the sons of famous Drivers approach, say in 1996?

    Oh, yeah, the son of one of them was a absolute bore.

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 17:53

    Read in Autosport today that Paffett's in the frame for a Force India 2009 race seat. Discuss.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 17:56

    Read in Autosport today that Paffett’s in the frame for a Force India 2009 race seat. Discuss.

    Not a chance.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 17:58

    Scott Woodwiss: 04/12/2008 at 17:53

    Read in Autosport today that Paffett’s in the frame for a Force India 2009 race seat. Discuss.

    Wishful thinking

  • me04/12/2008 at 18:08

    wtf?

    "Multiple sources are now reporting that Honda Racing F1 is being put up for sale and that if the sale is not completed by Christmas the team will be closed down."

    http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21017.html

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:11

    “Multiple sources are now reporting that Honda Racing F1 is being put up for sale and that if the sale is not completed by Christmas the team will be closed down.”

    WHAT?!?!

    No, no, no, no, please, that can't be right...

  • me04/12/2008 at 18:13

    No, no, no, no, please, that can’t be right…

    "There is no confirmation from any Honda company officials, but teams across Europe are reporting that they have received a rush of applications from Honda F1 personnel in the course of the day."

    certainly puts the lack of an xmas party into perspective!

  • Flibster04/12/2008 at 18:14

    I've heard thay the team are looking to reduce the number of staff, but not close the team down.

    Voluntary redundancies?

  • Flibster04/12/2008 at 18:17

    Dom: 04/12/2008 at 18:11

    “Multiple sources are now reporting that Honda Racing F1 is being put up for sale and that if the sale is not completed by Christmas the team will be closed down.”

    WHAT?!?!

    No, no, no, no, please, that can’t be right…

    No one tell Lou....

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:18

    This can't be happening...

    How the hell can Honda, of all teams, be in this much trouble?!?!

    Just when I thought supporting them for 2 miserable years was all going to be worth it... :( :(

    Furious.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:22

    Somebody give us a break... :(

  • Scott04/12/2008 at 18:26

    Pitpass has been running the Honda story as well. They've said that those who finished their shift at 14:00 were told to return to Brackley at 18:00 for a meeting.

    If grandprix.com's take on the situation is correct then I'd expect more news to leak out within the next couple of hours.

    Another possibility is that there'll be a budget reduction and redundancies ahead of 2009. If that's the case, then I think a statement will be issued tomorrow morning.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 18:27

    How stupid can you be? Forfeit sponsorship for two seasons to make a political point and ugly cars and then run out of money. What is the point in letting Ross Brawn do all the ground work and then pull the rug from under him? Is it fair to test young drivers and convince them that they may have a future in your team and then just shut it down?

  • Scott04/12/2008 at 18:32

    On the subject of Amazon's MP3 store, Mr. Christine is spot on - it's brilliant.

    Even as someone who's owned iPods right from the first generation, I've never really been into downloads. The prices on iTunes are often not any cheaper than buying CDs, but with the added concern about DRM. With Amazon's new store, they have plenty of recent releases for only £3.99, and no DRM.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 18:34

    “Multiple sources are now reporting that Honda Racing F1 is being put up for sale and that if the sale is not completed by Christmas the team will be closed down.”

    It does make sense when they closed down Super Aguri now. Would Honda (the company) want a racing team, which costs enormous amounts of money to keep and run, which to be fair, is not succeding, not getting the money back, why should they continue on with a struggling team?

    It is the paving road for the so called credit crunch starting to affect F1, tracks and now teams. I would not, would not be surprised if another team collapses or gets sold very, very soon.

  • Scott04/12/2008 at 18:35

    I read recently (can't remember where) that Honda have the biggest budget in Formula One. I found this surprising as I was always under the impression that Toyota lead the way, followed by Ferrari and the McLaren.

  • me04/12/2008 at 18:36

    How stupid can you be? Forfeit sponsorship for two seasons to make a political point and ugly cars and then run out of money. What is the point in letting Ross Brawn do all the ground work and then pull the rug from under him? Is it fair to test young drivers and convince them that they may have a future in your team and then just shut it down?

    very stupid and no.

  • me04/12/2008 at 18:37

    I read recently (can’t remember where) that Honda have the biggest budget in Formula One. I found this surprising as I was always under the impression that Toyota lead the way, followed by Ferrari and the McLaren.

    didn't someone say those figures were wrong as they included aguri's costs as well?

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:39

    why should they continue on with a struggling team?

    But they were set for success next year...

    I'd understand what you were saying if all the brains working at Honda couldn't put together a very competitive car with the amount of time they had, but the chances of things having gone wrong with the 09 car were massively unlikely.

  • Scott04/12/2008 at 18:42

    didn’t someone say those figures were wrong as they included aguri’s costs as well?

    Hadn't seen that, but it'd make sense. Although this has fallen a little bit by the wayside in recent times, Honda have always prided themselves on engineering excellence. I'd imagine that it'd go against core company principles to be seen to have bought any success.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:42

    didn’t someone say those figures were wrong as they included aguri’s costs as well?

    Yes. Honda are estimated to have the fourth biggest budget behind Toyota, Ferrari and McLaren, but ahead of Renault and BMW.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 18:43

    How stupid can you be? Forfeit sponsorship for two seasons to make a political point and ugly cars and then run out of money. What is the point in letting Ross Brawn do all the ground work and then pull the rug from under him? Is it fair to test young drivers and convince them that they may have a future in your team and then just shut it down?

    I agree with the fact that they have been idiotic in not getting any sponsors especially in the current climate.

    But they were set for success next year…

    How do you know that they were going to be successful next season? The big people in Japan aren't gonna listen to Fry and co and hear 'We're going to do it next season' and 'We're going to do it next season' time after time. They'll look to the past and see for 2 seasons, they have wasted money on two seasons in which they have had 66 points less than in one single season.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 18:43

    It is possible that they are preparing the ground for bad news. Let everyone believe that they are closing the team down so that when they announce 'only' 100 redundancies everyone expresses relief rather than something negative.

    But they were set for success next year…

    I don't believe for a second that they were/are going anywhere next season.

  • Flibster04/12/2008 at 18:43

    Scott: 04/12/2008 at 18:32

    On the subject of Amazon’s MP3 store, Mr. Christine is spot on - it’s brilliant.

    Even as someone who’s owned iPods right from the first generation, I’ve never really been into downloads. The prices on iTunes are often not any cheaper than buying CDs, but with the added concern about DRM. With Amazon’s new store, they have plenty of recent releases for only £3.99, and no DRM.

    Price - Goooood. :D

    Quality - Baaaad. :(

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:46

    How do you know that they were going to be successful next season?

    For the reasons I just said. They have the brains, they have the experience, they have the resources and budget, and they had the time.

  • Flibster04/12/2008 at 18:47

    Dom: 04/12/2008 at 18:46

    How do you know that they were going to be successful next season?

    For the reasons I just said. They have the brains, they have the experience and they had the time.

    Just like when they ditched the 2007 car early on in the season to focus on the 2008 car. Look where that got them.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 18:47

    For the reasons I just said. They have the brains, they have the experience and they had the time.

    Unless you nicked the TARDIS from the RSPCRF1 team, you haven't seen them testing the 09 car or in a 09 race. Its not the truth until its happend.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:48

    I don’t believe for a second that they were/are going anywhere next season.

    Obviously, I do.

    They only reason they were where they were at the end of the season was because they were busy building a different car.

  • me04/12/2008 at 18:48

    Price - Goooood.

    Quality - Baaaad.

    compared to what?

    compared to original masters recorded in a studio yes. but you can't buy those anyway. cd quality is substandard in comparison to what the artist lays down anyhow.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:49

    Just like when they ditched the 2007 car early on in the season to focus on the 2008 car. Look where that got them.

    They had the chance to develop the 08 car into a competitive one, but why bother when you can take advantage of radical changes and Ross Brawn in 2009?

  • Flibster04/12/2008 at 18:49

    me: 04/12/2008 at 18:48

    Price - Goooood. Quality - Baaaad.

    compared to what?

    compared to original masters recorded in a studio yes. but you can’t buy those anyway. cd quality is substandard in comparison to what the artist lays down anyhow.

    The FLAC files that I normally listen to.256kbps mp3 just doesn't cut it with a decent quality mp3 player or sound card *and no - an ipod isn't a decent mp3 player quality wise.. *

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:50

    Its not the truth until its happend.

    I'd like to believe it will happen. :(

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 18:51

    I read recently (can’t remember where) that Honda have the biggest budget in Formula One. I found this surprising as I was always under the impression that Toyota lead the way, followed by Ferrari and the McLaren.

    Remember one thing - when Honda were BAR and they started out in 1999, they were actually the richest team on the grid, more money than Ferrari and McLaren. But yes, I understand the fact that that was some 10 going on to 11 years ago and things have changed. But them and Toyota are exactly the same - huge budget, yet it's kind of getting them nowhere. Except Toyota haven't gone all mad on the chase for eco recognition by wasting money on a 2 year project that, in my opinion, has done naff all.

    Honda have really just shot themselves in the foot.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:51

    The BBC are reporting it! :(

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 18:53

    They only reason they were where they were at the end of the season was because they were busy building a different car.

    They have been in the same position for two seasons and when they had a customer team even they beat them. There is not a shred of evidence to say Honda are going to achieve anything in 2009. They may have Ross Brawn but they don't have another technical person of any stature.

  • Scott04/12/2008 at 18:54

    How do you know that they were going to be successful next season? The big people in Japan aren’t gonna listen to Fry and co and hear ‘We’re going to do it next season’ and ‘We’re going to do it next season’ time after time. They’ll look to the past and see for 2 seasons, they have wasted money on two seasons in which they have had 66 points less than in one single season.

    That's a great point. In almost any team, in any sport, the phrase 'next year's going to be the one' is used frequently. I'm sure the bosses back in Japan are given reasons every year why the team is going to make a big step forward the following season. From their perspective, why should they believe what's said this time?

  • Flibster04/12/2008 at 18:54

    comment moderated... :(

    I can see three car teams coming soon if Honda disapear - just to bring the grids up to size.All it would need is one more team to go.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 18:54

    Honda have really just shot themselves in the foot.

    More Nick Fry to blame for that one.

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 18:55

    More Nick Fry to blame for that one.

    So true.

  • Christine04/12/2008 at 18:55

    comment moderated…

    Found it.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 18:57

    More Nick Fry to blame for that one.

    Honda are paying him half a million a year to screw up. Most people figured out he was not up to the job years ago but Honda keep writing him big cheques

  • me04/12/2008 at 18:57

    The FLAC files that I normally listen to.256kbps mp3 just doesn’t cut it with a decent quality mp3 player or sound card *and no - an ipod isn’t a decent mp3 player quality wise.. *

    flac files are still restricted to the quality of the cd from which they're ripped. they're also monstrously big.

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 18:59

    Flibster: 04/12/2008 at 18:54

    comment moderated… I can see three car teams coming soon if Honda disapear - just to bring the grids up to size.All it would need is one more team to go.

    Didn't they tamper with that only some years ago? There was a feature in Autosport I remember about a possible 3 car system, and they did a mock up of Schumacher, Barrichello and Villeneuve in 3 Ferraris together. I know, frightening thought.

  • Scott04/12/2008 at 19:00

    compared to original masters recorded in a studio yes. but you can’t buy those anyway. cd quality is substandard in comparison to what the artist lays down anyhow.

    The Amazon downloads seem to be 256 kbps MP3 files, which I'm sure would be fine for my ears. I only tend to save 128 kbps AACs to my Nano, anyway.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 19:00

    There is not a shred of evidence to say Honda are going to achieve anything in 2009.

    If that's what you think, there's no need for me to argue.

    All I can say is, if I believed that Honda weren't going to do it next year there's not a chance I'd be supporting them.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 19:02

    Didn’t they tamper with that only some years ago? There was a feature in Autosport I remember about a possible 3 car system, and they did a mock up of Schumacher, Barrichello and Villeneuve in 3 Ferraris together. I know, frightening thought.

    Teams used to be free to run as many cars as they liked. BRM one season had 5 cars. Ferrari used to run 4 regularly.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 19:03

    I’m sure the bosses back in Japan are given reasons every year why the team is going to make a big step forward the following season. From their perspective, why should they believe what’s said this time?

    Sadly, that's very true.

  • Scott04/12/2008 at 19:04

    More Nick Fry to blame for that one.

    I've been saying for a long time that he's been doing a bad job. Under Dave Richards the team was making progress, but with Fry at the helm they've been falling behind.

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 19:07

    I’ve been saying for a long time that he’s been doing a bad job. Under Dave Richards the team was making progress, but with Fry at the helm they’ve been falling behind.

    Get Dave Richards back! :D

  • Scott04/12/2008 at 19:10

    The BBC are reporting it!

    If news has made its way through to the mainstream media, that's really not a good sign.

  • me04/12/2008 at 19:10

    i guess nakamoto saw this coming:

    "Honda's Shuhei Nakamoto has this week left his position with the Formula One team."

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72308

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 19:11

    The BBC are reporting it!

    Where? I don't see it on their site.

    “Honda’s Shuhei Nakamoto has this week left his position with the Formula One team.”

    Seen it. :P

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 19:12

    If news has made its way through to the mainstream media, that’s really not a good sign.

    Tell me about it... :(

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 19:12

    Where? I don’t see it on their site.

    It was on the news channel.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 19:13

    “Honda’s Shuhei Nakamoto has this week left his position with the Formula One team.”

    To put it bluntly, Honda are doomed.

    Sooo, which team to go bankrupt next, I'm putting my money on Force India.

  • me04/12/2008 at 19:13

    Seen it.

    clearly. it was yesterday's story.

    the point is, the man was obviously informed as to what was about to happen.

  • me04/12/2008 at 19:14

    Sooo, which team to go bankrupt next, I’m putting my money on Force India.

    before williams??

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 19:15

    i guess nakamoto saw this coming

    I wouldn't be surprised if that was going to happen anyway.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 19:16

    me: 04/12/2008 at 19:14

    Sooo, which team to go bankrupt next, I’m putting my money on Force India.

    before williams??

    Yeah, Mallaya gets bored, puts less and less money and in bam, end of.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 19:17

    To put it bluntly, Honda are doomed.

    Nooo! Don't say that!

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 19:19

    http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36685

    Honda are withdrawing from F1

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 19:21

    They say that they have two potential buyers

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 19:22

    To put it bluntly, Honda are doomed.

    Thank goodness Lou isn't here....yet.

  • me04/12/2008 at 19:22

    Honda are withdrawing from F1

    woah.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 19:22

    Honda are withdrawing from F1

    Absolutely devastated. :(

    I can't believe it...

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 19:23

    Steven Roy: 04/12/2008 at 19:19

    http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36685

    Honda are withdrawing from F1

    I honestly didn't see that coming this quickly, it is not official yet, sources aren't always reliable.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 19:24

    Thank goodness Lou isn’t here….yet.

    Lucky her...

    All of a sudden, the thought of next season isn't quite as appealing as it was this morning.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 19:24

    To put it bluntly, Honda are doomed.

    Now I don't want to say I'm some sorta fortune guy

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 19:26

    Honda are withdrawing from F1

    ...

    ...

    ...

    Wow.

    Someone keep Lou busy and away from any news channels or F1 news sites. I don't think she'd cope :(

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 19:26

    Thank goodness Lou isn’t here….yet.

    Just as well she has no internet connection just now.

  • Dom04/12/2008 at 19:29

    :( :( :( :(

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 19:32

    I wonder who the potential buyers are?

  • Scott04/12/2008 at 19:34

    Someone keep Lou busy and away from any news channels or F1 news sites. I don’t think she’d cope

    Indeed. Although my brother's just text me and said that Jenson will be alright when Piquet gets sacked mid-season. I think Fernando and Jenson would be Lou's dream team, actually.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 19:36

    Steven Roy: 04/12/2008 at 19:32

    I wonder who the potential buyers are?

    That's alright I suppose. I don't wanna go down to 9 teams.

  • Christine04/12/2008 at 19:37

    I wonder who the potential buyers are?

    Who has that kind of money? And more importantly, who's going to show they're not scared of the recession?

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 19:39

    I wonder who the potential buyers are?

    This is Nick Fry we're talking about so - Chuck Norris and The Animals of Farthing Wood?

  • Scott04/12/2008 at 19:39

    On Five Live now.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 19:40

    Who has that kind of money? And more importantly, who’s going to show they’re not scared of the recession?

    I think buyer in this case will be a legal term and little else. I doubt much if any money will change hands. Honda just want someone to take on the liabilities and take away any potentila bad news. It is amazing what some companies will find acceptable when the option is a load of bad headlines, bad feelings and having to write cheques to cover debts, redundancies and the scrapping and cleaning up of their site.

  • me04/12/2008 at 19:42

    On Five Live now.

    what did they say?

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 19:43

    me: 04/12/2008 at 19:42

    On Five Live now.

    what did they say?

    Yeah, I missed it :(

  • Ollie04/12/2008 at 19:46

    Can someone please pass Christine a hankerchief and give her a hug. Potentially... no Button, no Bourdais and no Montagny. :(

  • me04/12/2008 at 19:46

    Can someone please pass Christine a hankerchief and give her a hug. Potentially… no Button, no Bourdais and no Montagny.

    awwwww

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 19:48

    on news 24 now!

  • Scott Woodwiss04/12/2008 at 19:50

    Basically said their only options are to withdraw or sell the team.

  • Christine04/12/2008 at 19:50

    Can someone please pass Christine a hankerchief and give her a hug. Potentially… no Button, no Bourdais and no Montagny.

    Thanks Ollie

  • Dank04/12/2008 at 19:50

    So anyone want to take bets on who the next team will be to struggle? My money is on Williams.

  • R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind)04/12/2008 at 19:51

    Dank: 04/12/2008 at 19:50

    So anyone want to take bets on who the next team will be to struggle? My money is on Williams.

    R.G (Survivors : A pandemic of brackets is taking over mankind): 04/12/2008 at 19:13

    “Honda’s Shuhei Nakamoto has this week left his position with the Formula One team.”

    To put it bluntly, Honda are doomed.

    Sooo, which team to go bankrupt next, I’m putting my money on Force India.

  • Dank04/12/2008 at 19:51

    Woah woah. Someone on another forum has a relative who works at Honda and he's just advised that the team is definitely folding.

  • me04/12/2008 at 19:54

    Woah woah. Someone on another forum has a relative who works at Honda and he’s just advised that the team is definitely folding.

    if the beeb are reporting it, it pretty much is fact now.

    pitpass have been dubious in the past, but 5live and news24 is good enough for me.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 19:55

    So anyone want to take bets on who the next team will be to struggle? My money is on Williams.

    I think Williams will do OK. I expect the manfacturers to be the problem as I have expected them to be a problem since they started taking over the grid. Honda have spent a fortune and achieved nothing and now look like walking away. Toyota have also spent a fortune and achieved nothing so they may be next.

    Credit Suisse who are a major sponsor of BMW have announced today that they will make 11% of their work force redundant but i think BMW are more likely to stick it out.

  • Dank04/12/2008 at 19:56

    Credit Suisse who are a major sponsor of BMW have announced today that they will make 11% of their work force redundant but i think BMW are more likely to stick it out.

    I'm sure I read somewhere back in Apr/May time that Credit Suisse would not be sponsoring BMW Sauber in 2009 anyway?

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 19:57

    I’m sure I read somewhere back in Apr/May time that Credit Suisse would not be sponsoring BMW Sauber in 2009 anyway?

    I didn't know that. Thanks

  • me04/12/2008 at 19:57

    this needs a thread of it's own:

    http://www.sidepodcast.com/2008/12/04/honda-to-withdraw-from-f1-by-march-2009/

    (doohickey is confusing)

  • Jackie04/12/2008 at 19:59

    Evening

    Wowzee powzee! .. I didn't see that coming with Honda :(

    Oooh, no chance of Senna getting a seat then and what of Rubens and Jenson

  • Dank04/12/2008 at 19:59

    I didn’t know that. Thanks

    Actually saying that, it's unclear. I only have F1-Live to go with.

    Good bye Credit Suisse: http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080824183014.shtml

    Please stay Credit Suisse: http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081101110147.shtml

  • Andy Taylor04/12/2008 at 20:26

    flac files are still restricted to the quality of the cd from which they’re ripped. they’re also monstrously big.

    I fail to see a better way. CD is already better than the human ear can perceive, it is poor mastering that usually causes the quality issues that you speak of. I suppose you could always get yourself a time machine and go around listening to music in the studio it was made in :)

    Personally, I don't buy from the iTunes store, I purchase real CDs and rip them using AAC at 192kbps. I do download podcasts and other free music. I cannot control the quality of these downloads, but they sound OK to me (and LittlePurpleGoth has just added that she has purchased stuff from iTunes and it sounds OK to her "fussy" ears).

    The thing about iPods is that they may not be the best music players available, but they are easy to use and convenient.

    My tip for the best sounding iPod BTW is the Shuffle.

  • Flibster04/12/2008 at 20:26

    me: 04/12/2008 at 18:57

    The FLAC files that I normally listen to.256kbps mp3 just doesn’t cut it with a decent quality mp3 player or sound card *and no - an ipod isn’t a decent mp3 player quality wise.. *

    flac files are still restricted to the quality of the cd from which they’re ripped. they’re also monstrously big.

    UNless you can get the master recordings or some 24bit files *which can be handled in flac. ;) * then thats as good as you're going to get. Size wise though they're not that bad. Double the size of 320kbps mp3's from my testing.As I've got a 48gb mp3 player that natively handles flac - size is not an issue. ;) Still large enough for several days worth of music.

    Scott Woodwiss: 04/12/2008 at 18:59

    Flibster: 04/12/2008 at 18:54

    comment moderated… I can see three car teams coming soon if Honda disapear - just to bring the grids up to size.All it would need is one more team to go.

    Didn’t they tamper with that only some years ago? There was a feature in Autosport I remember about a possible 3 car system, and they did a mock up of Schumacher, Barrichello and Villeneuve in 3 Ferraris together. I know, frightening thought.

    They did think about it recently - never implemented anything.

    Scott Woodwiss: 04/12/2008 at 19:07

    I’ve been saying for a long time that he’s been doing a bad job. Under Dave Richards the team was making progress, but with Fry at the helm they’ve been falling behind.

    Get Dave Richards back!

    Yup - he dragged them upwards along with Geoff Willis. They knew what they were doing. Nick Fry, sadly, didn't.

    me: 04/12/2008 at 19:14

    Sooo, which team to go bankrupt next, I’m putting my money on Force India.

    before williams??

    Gotta be Williams - been running at a loss for the last 3 or 4 years now. Plus every year Sir Frank looks more and more frail. :( Shame to see them go.

    Steven Roy: 04/12/2008 at 19:21

    They say that they have two potential buyers

    Is one of them Red Bull? ;)

  • Flibster04/12/2008 at 20:26

    Another one in moderation. :(

  • Flibster04/12/2008 at 20:27

    Scott Woodwiss: 04/12/2008 at 18:59

    Flibster: 04/12/2008 at 18:54

    comment moderated… I can see three car teams coming soon if Honda disapear - just to bring the grids up to size.All it would need is one more team to go.

    Didn’t they tamper with that only some years ago? There was a feature in Autosport I remember about a possible 3 car system, and they did a mock up of Schumacher, Barrichello and Villeneuve in 3 Ferraris together. I know, frightening thought.

    They did think about it recently - never implemented anything.

    Scott Woodwiss: 04/12/2008 at 19:07

    I’ve been saying for a long time that he’s been doing a bad job. Under Dave Richards the team was making progress, but with Fry at the helm they’ve been falling behind.

    Get Dave Richards back!

    Yup - he dragged them upwards along with Geoff Willis. They knew what they were doing. Nick Fry, sadly, didn't.

    me: 04/12/2008 at 19:14

    Sooo, which team to go bankrupt next, I’m putting my money on Force India.

    before williams??

    Gotta be Williams - been running at a loss for the last 3 or 4 years now. Plus every year Sir Frank looks more and more frail. :( Shame to see them go.

    Steven Roy: 04/12/2008 at 19:21

    They say that they have two potential buyers

    Is one of them Red Bull? ;)

  • Andy Taylor04/12/2008 at 20:35

    I've been moderated - either for criticising Me's thoughts

    on CDs or because I posted the same thing twice due to our internet breaking down...

  • me04/12/2008 at 20:38

    I’ve been moderated - either for criticising Me’s thoughts

    have unmoderated ya, but we might have to continue that discussion another time :)

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 22:21

    sidepodspace update - maybe

    ITV News at Ten are trailling a story about a private spce flight. I guess they will stick in 30 seconds at the end of the bulletin.

  • Steven Roy04/12/2008 at 22:46

    sidepodspace

    If the recent shuttle mission ignited your enthusiasm for space and you want a trip you can either apply to NASA and in several years you get to be an astronaut or you can rob a bank and have a trip in this.

    http://www.xcor.com/press-releases/2008/08-03-26_Lynx_suborbital_vehicle.html